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Post subject: Strat Neck Size
Posted: Thu Nov 27, 2008 10:11 pm
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I'm a beginning player and notice that a lot of guitarists use their thumb to mute the E string. I have a Highway One and I'm wondering if there is another Strat that has a thinner neck that would make it easier to do. For example, when playing octaves, I can't quite reach the E string w/ my thumb. I don't have huge hands, but I don't think I have small hands either.....7 inches from palm to middle finger tip. Will my hands learn to become more flexible? Or do I need to cheat and get a guitar w/ a thinner neck?


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Posted: Fri Nov 28, 2008 6:47 am
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practice a lot...it will make your hand more flexible...

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Post subject: Re: Strat Neck Size
Posted: Fri Nov 28, 2008 6:54 am
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Hi CPSOX, welcome to the Forum.

That thumb on the bottom E can often be fretting a note as well as damping it (very Hendrix). For example, I often like playing major 13 chords with the thumb fretting the root note on the bottom E.

You could try A13: bottom E 5th fret (with the thumb); D string 5th fret (first finger barre); G string 6th fret; B string 7th fret; top e 5th fret. Give it a go: mmm, jazzy! The reason for doing it like that rather than just playing the root on the open A string is that you can move the shape up and down the neck to voice that 13th chord in any key.

I have fairly smallish, non-ideal guitarist's hands. But I can thumb those bass notes without a problem. Strat necks vary between 41 and 43 mm wide at the nut. 42 mm is pretty standard; and the heel end is always the same width. So there is little variation in fingerboard width. The shape of the back of the neck (modern C shape, V, soft-V, etc) will make a difference, however. You most likely have a modern C shape, and with smallish hands it is probably the best one for you. But do go and try some others if only to get a feel for the options.

Does any of that help?

Cheers - C


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Posted: Fri Nov 28, 2008 11:08 am
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Ceri and Leonard, thanks for the replies!

Ceri, I can play the E barre chord with my thumb fretting the E string without any problems. I can also play octaves with my thumb muting the E string, my 2nd and 4th fingers playing the octave. I guess my problem is my thumb and first finger aren't long (or hopefully just limber) enough to reach each other around the neck. I've only played 2-3 guitars, so I'm not very fluent in what feels good or not. Does neck radius have a measurable effect? According to Fender.com, my guitar is a C neck, 9.5 radius and 43 mm nut.

I guess what I'm asking is it worth checking out a 41 mm nut guitar, a different neck shape or different radius? I would imagine that having a thinner neck would help, but I'm guessing that will affect the tone. Is this a custom shop question? I'm hoping that practice will help, I'm already seeing my fingers get stronger to hold shapes better, but I'm also willing to look at other equipment too.

Thanks for all the help!


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Posted: Tue Dec 02, 2008 5:04 pm
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Anyone else have any insight?


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Posted: Tue Dec 02, 2008 5:18 pm
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what you've got to ask yourself is, 'is 1,2 or even 4mm going to make that much difference?' If it is, then your going to find it easier to do as your dexterity gets better. Thinner nuts aren't always a bonus, they tend to mean thinner string spacing too. Which can lead to difficulties with clean fretting, not good for someone starting out. Remember when it comes to learning, the nik rule 'skimp now, pay later'. I'd concentrate on playing and working with my fingers first, then when your ready your going to find you wont struggle much at all to play using your thumb.

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Posted: Wed Dec 03, 2008 8:26 am
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Man, I had taken studio guitar lessons, music theory lessons and practiced technique most of my life. In my studio guitar training, the thumb should always stay on the middle of the back of the neck, where the skunk stripe would be on a strat. This forces you to use the fingertips more and cleans up your ability to fret notes cleanly.

While I realize that many players have let their thumb come up to the fingerboard and some even used it to fret notes and chords, as far as proper technique its way off. Unless your hands are huge like Hendrix, you will have a difficult time using your finger tips to fret notes when your thumb moves up toward the finger board. Keeping your thumb in the middle of the back of the neck helps keep your wrist straight and forces you to fret with your finger tips.

Please don't blast me, I understand that not everyone has perfect technique to be a good guitarist, but this is the way I learned to practice and it payed dividends for me to accomplish soloing techniques. This is probably more important for Jazz and classical players than rock players. Rock and Roll is all about breaking the rules...sooooooo

I still let my thumb come up in some things, but when I have to get through a hard passage of fast picking or arpeggio sweeping, it really helps to use proper technique

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Posted: Wed Dec 03, 2008 9:53 am
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firstrat wrote:
Man, I had taken studio guitar lessons, music theory lessons and practiced technique most of my life. In my studio guitar training, the thumb should always stay on the middle of the back of the neck, where the skunk stripe would be on a strat. This forces you to use the fingertips more and cleans up your ability to fret notes cleanly.

While I realize that many players have let their thumb come up to the fingerboard and some even used it to fret notes and chords, as far as proper technique its way off. Unless your hands are huge like Hendrix, you will have a difficult time using your finger tips to fret notes when your thumb moves up toward the finger board. Keeping your thumb in the middle of the back of the neck helps keep your wrist straight and forces you to fret with your finger tips.

Please don't blast me, I understand that not everyone has perfect technique to be a good guitarist, but this is the way I learned to practice and it payed dividends for me to accomplish soloing techniques. This is probably more important for Jazz and classical players than rock players. Rock and Roll is all about breaking the rules...sooooooo

I still let my thumb come up in some things, but when I have to get through a hard passage of fast picking or arpeggio sweeping, it really helps to use proper technique


Thanks....that's probably sage advice. If I'm going to learn this thing, I should probably learn it the right way.


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Posted: Wed Dec 03, 2008 10:16 am
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CPSOX

I agree with you. Its better to learn proper technique to avoid potential pitfalls/roadblocks as you progress. Once you get to a certain point you will realize where you can break the rules. For instance, in the higher registers when soloing, my thumb comes up and it actually helps me. I do not even pay attention to my thumb position anymore, so I am sure it may come up even more, but there are times when that will prohibit you from playing certain things

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Posted: Wed Dec 03, 2008 2:26 pm
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firstrat wrote:
CPSOX

I agree with you. Its better to learn proper technique to avoid potential pitfalls/roadblocks as you progress. Once you get to a certain point you will realize where you can break the rules. For instance, in the higher registers when soloing, my thumb comes up and it actually helps me. I do not even pay attention to my thumb position anymore, so I am sure it may come up even more, but there are times when that will prohibit you from playing certain things


Visited a shop here in Chicago today that is one of the 3 Fender Custom dealers in IL and posed the same question. Basically said the same thing....learn how to play it the proper way first. I guess I figured the thumb was the proper way since that's how I see people doing it, but I've been corrected!

Thanks for the help! Only a few months into this whole new world, but I'm having a lot of fun so far!


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Posted: Wed Dec 03, 2008 2:28 pm
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These guys are giviing you good advice. I remember that when just starting I had major trouble with barre'd 9th chords. No matter how much I tried, I couldn't seem to play the chords without them sounding like junk. It seemed to be resolved magically. One morning I got up and could play those chords easily. I believe it was the hours I spent practicing. I am not a gifted player and have to work really hard to play what some seem to play easily, but the work is worth it to me.


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Posted: Wed Dec 03, 2008 5:59 pm
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firstrat wrote:
Its better to learn proper technique


Hmm. I'm going to respectfully object to this use of the word "proper".

Try playing The Wind Cries Mary without using the thumb to fret that bottom F. The "proper" way to play that number is with the thumb: I can do it easily and I sure don't have Hendrix's long skinny fingers.

Many years ago I also saw Julian Bream playing flamenco style passages on the classical guitar using his thumb on the bottom E, precisely for the purpose of moving a shape up and down the neck with the root on the bottom string. Guitar technique just don't get much more traditional pre-rock-and-roll "proper" than Julian Bream!

On the other hand, I certainly agree that thumb in the middle of the back of the neck is the ideal default position, and learning that will help a lot with passage work.

But at certain times whatever has to be done to achieve the notes is "proper", including thumbing the bass notes if that's the only way!

My two cents'...

Cheers - C


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Posted: Wed Dec 03, 2008 6:48 pm
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Ceri wrote:
firstrat wrote:
Its better to learn proper technique


Hmm. I'm going to respectfully object to this use of the word "proper".

Try playing The Wind Cries Mary without using the thumb to fret that bottom F. The "proper" way to play that number is with the thumb: I can do it easily and I sure don't have Hendrix's long skinny fingers.

Many years ago I also saw Julian Bream playing flamenco style passages on the classical guitar using his thumb on the bottom E, precisely for the purpose of moving a shape up and down the neck with the root on the bottom string. Guitar technique just don't get much more traditional pre-rock-and-roll "proper" than Julian Bream!

On the other hand, I certainly agree that thumb in the middle of the back of the neck is the ideal default position, and learning that will help a lot with passage work.

But at certain times whatever has to be done to achieve the notes is "proper", including thumbing the bass notes if that's the only way!

My two cents'...

Cheers - C


Agreed! Just liberal use of the term, but from a certain standpoint....also very true. Just because someone did something successfully does not mean it was a proper technique from the classical training aspect....most great blues and rock players deviate in their technique quite a bit from that. I have had to audition in front of an classical studio guitarists, and they will critique everynote, the position of the instrument, the way the strings are picked. Man, don't use your skin when fingerpicking, try to get your fingernail on the string. These guys will cringe. Don't slur to many notes. And my experience is very limited in this relm, but this is what I went through for a few semesters. My heart was never really in it though, I am a rock and roll fan. But I learned some things that helped me advance. I got an A in that class

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