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Posted: Thu Nov 20, 2008 6:34 pm
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orvilleowner wrote:
Ceri wrote:
That wisegeek link is also a good one. Nobody has an excuse for not knowing about this stuff after that!


Actually, there seems to be some ambiguity in the use of those terms. 1) They are used to indicate how a log is cut up into boards, and 2) they are used to indicate the angle of the grain through the boards.

That ambiguity can easiiy lead to misunderstanding, confusion and misuse depending on who's talking and the context.


In fact, it already has lead to confusion - because I'm not quite undertanding what you mean. Ambiguity in the use of which terms, please?

Cheers - C


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Posted: Thu Nov 20, 2008 8:01 pm
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Maybe I shouldn't have brought it up. Here's goes:

Rift sawing a log actually produces boards that are all what are termed quartersawn (in terms of grain angle).

Plain sawing a log produces boards that are flat- and quartersawn and everything in between (in terms of grain angle).

Quarter sawing a log produces some boards that aren't so quartersawn ...


http://www.bchardwood.com/glossary_sawn.html

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Posted: Fri Nov 21, 2008 12:29 pm
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Just learned something new today. I placed my order for a Custom Team Built Strat on Tuesday. I had originally requested a quartersawn AA maple neck. The guy that I ordered it from just got back to me and said that the AA flame maple necks are not quartersawn. If there has to be a tradeoff, i'd go with the AA Flame because the quartersawn is just more stable, otherwise, not a big deal for the average guitar player like myself. Just sharing what I learned. Hope that helps somebody out there in this great forum.


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Posted: Fri Nov 21, 2008 1:44 pm
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Thanks everyone for the education :D You Brits know your wood. and I think I know what Tom Sawyer's forefathers did for a living. Hmm my mean mean pride...What a Rush

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Posted: Fri Nov 21, 2008 2:02 pm
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I'm assuming that that if they cut a whole log flat, then at least a couple of the planks that come out will be quarter sawn...right?


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Posted: Sat Nov 22, 2008 6:44 pm
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orvilleowner wrote:
Maybe I shouldn't have brought it up. Here's goes:

Rift sawing a log actually produces boards that are all what are termed quartersawn (in terms of grain angle).

Plain sawing a log produces boards that are flat- and quartersawn and everything in between (in terms of grain angle).

Quarter sawing a log produces some boards that aren't so quartersawn ...


http://www.bchardwood.com/glossary_sawn.html


Now this piques my curiosity, because some of the information in that linked page contradicts what was shown in the page you linked to earlier in this thread:

orvilleowner wrote:


So this afternoon I took myself off for a little walk in a direction where I might accidentally-deliberately bump into my friendly neighborhood sawmill owner. In which I succeeded, and so fell into conversation with him on the subject of milling tree trunks. This is what he had to tell me.

In theory there are numerous ways of cutting up logs, and they have various names (as we've discussed) which then get applied to the types of timber they produce. However, in practice most of these methods are prohibitively expensive and so what really happens is that sawmills usually just slab saw a trunk. As has been observed several times on this thread, this actually produces different tree ring angles in different planks, like this:

Image

If you're milling quality timber you then select out the different cuts and price them to your customers according to the perceived value of that piece: quarter sawn most expensive, straight grained flat sawn next, and then all the rest.

So Mr Windwalker had it exactly right when he said:

windwalker9649 wrote:
'm assuming that that if they cut a whole log flat, then at least a couple of the planks that come out will be quarter sawn...right?


Now, my sawmill guy spends most of his life processing pine for the building industry, but it so happens that in the very village where I spend half my time lived the late Norman Reed, founder of the illustrious Totnes School of Guitarmaking, and it seems Mr Reed had my mill owner machine wood for him sometimes. So, though not a musician, he has some notion of the cuts guitar builders want. Nice coincidence, eh?

Therefore I discussed other aspects of the matter and we got onto the subject of ash bodies. I was asking how vital it was to get decent flat sawn timber for that part of the job and he said he thought it most unlikely that it mattered very much. He said if we look at our transparent finished guitars we may find all kinds of different angled rings at the ends, and varying grain patterns in the fronts and backs. (Which is the case with my two transparent finished Fenders.) He said that this was because the quality of the kiln drying process was probably far more important in producing flat workable pieces of timber than from which bit of the tree trunk they came.

My fella says that it is possible for a mill to produce the fancy cuts we've been describing, and no doubt some do in small quantities for cabinet makers and such. However, that Fender don't source their timber that way can be seen by looking at our guitar necks. Nearly all of them have rings that run diagonally when viewed at the heel end. And as my guy believed in principle, it clearly doesn't have a bad effect on the stability of most of our necks.

In other words, Fender are purchasing all the reasonable quality timber that comes out of slab sawn maple trunks, and then select different pieces for different parts of the catalog. For instance, that which is effectively quarter sawn goes into Eric Johnson Sig Strats. And so forth.

Phew! So there we are: you have it as I have it...

Cheers - C


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Posted: Sat Nov 22, 2008 7:43 pm
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Ceri wrote:
In theory there are numerous ways of cutting up logs, and they have various names (as we've discussed) which then get applied to the types of timber they produce.


Which leads to the ambiguity with those "names." They can still refer to the "ways of cutting up logs" or the type of grain that the cut up boards have.

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Posted: Sun Nov 23, 2008 10:14 am
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I have an american deluxe v neck strat. How is that neck cut?


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Posted: Sun Nov 23, 2008 10:30 am
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Look at the end of your neck.

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Are the grain lines up and down, left to right, or angled?

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Posted: Thu Dec 11, 2008 3:35 pm
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Maybe I'm just dull but I am staring at my maple neck and cant figure it out.
This is a 2006 CS 1965 reissue.. the grain runs paralell to the figure board but not completely around the neck. the grain seems to open out the headstock. could this be partially quartersawn?

Thanks


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Posted: Thu Dec 11, 2008 4:45 pm
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Nice.... looks like I want to check my necks now :)


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