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Posted: Sat Nov 08, 2008 3:07 pm
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Can the Fender pros be contacted? I would think they'd want to help out us Fender lovers.


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Posted: Sat Nov 08, 2008 3:29 pm
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you have to call em or email em or something. I dont have contact details for em. Try customer relations.


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Posted: Sat Nov 08, 2008 6:01 pm
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soggycrow wrote:
It's not the switch. From a seemingly knowledgeable web site (guitarnuts.com):

Note that the pickup select switch (SW1) has only three electrical positions per pole. The 2 and 4 positions are merely mechanical detents where the common contact of each pole is shorted to both the 1 and 2 (2 and 3) electrical positions.

So, electronically the 3 position switch is the same as the five position switch. There is just a slight mechanical difference which has nothing to do with the signal path. Any difference in the sound must be attributable to something else. Maybe scatter wound wiring? Different materials? Nitrocellulose lacquer finishes?

Guitarists claim they can tell differences in sound attributable to all of these things and more. Maybe. But it's not the switch.


Thank you for this very sensible post.

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Posted: Mon Nov 10, 2008 3:36 pm
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rmaddelein wrote:
I have been playing strats for many years now. I currently have three, all with 5-way switches. Position 2 on the 5-way does NOT give me the tone I got on that older strat when I put the 3-way switch between position 1 and 2. Everyone is saying that position 2 on the 5-way switch should sound the same, but I can't get that very distinctive sweet and hollow tone I got on the old strat. It kind of sounded like the tone on "Sultans Of Swing".


Hi again, rmaddelein: We can go on batting this wiring issue about forever. Personally I agree entirely with SoggyCrow that as far as circuitry is concerned there is nothing in it.

And yet you and Nikininja are hearing a difference between the same circuit depending whether it is achieved with a three-way or five-way switch.

So what we need now is an experiment. If you felt like it you could replace the five-way with a three-way in one of your current guitars and see if it recaptures that tone you are after. If so - point proven. If not, then it means it was something else about that old Strat that was giving the tone.

Then we can discuss for many pages what it might be!

BTW: I have a strong idea Knopfler's Sultans guitar had a three-way switch - but I just can't find evidence for that at this minute...

Great thread!

Cheers - C


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Posted: Mon Nov 10, 2008 5:41 pm
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I guess I'm going off on a tangent here but I just replaced my 5 way with a 3 way. I just didn't like all the clicking - Never did. Having used Stratocasters for so long, I'm still used to easily setting the 3 way for what we now call positions 2 and 4. FWIW, I hardly use(d) positions 2 and 4 any way.

Back to the point: Having read this active thread (thus far) and having just changed the switch yesterday, I can state without hesitation that there is absolutely NO tonal difference WHATSOEVER between the 5 way and the 3 way when using positions 2 and 4. I find it utterly preposterous to assert that a mechanical notch or two to hold the switch in a certain place changes the tone in an electronically identical switch.

It's like saying replacing a white knob with a creme knob on the volume pot changes the sweep of the pot or doing the same with the tone pot changes the capacitance. If you think about it, these examples make about as much sense as this 3 way vs. 5 way thing. Such assertions defy the laws of physics.

Yet, I'll bet this 3 way vs. 5 way thing shall gain steam on one forum and then another and then another and next, we have the latest installment of, "infallible web dogma". I just hope my knob/pot examples aren't taken out of context and wind up the same.

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Posted: Mon Nov 10, 2008 6:20 pm
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Brother the 5 way switch was designed and purpose built to allow players to more easily hit the "out of phase" position between the stops on a 3 way switch.

Your unbelievably "sweet tone" achieved with the 3 way switch could have been due to the specific pickups on the guitar and/or the pickups in combination with the amp you were using at the time (or even just "warm fuzzy memories" from a drug hazy time).

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Posted: Tue Nov 11, 2008 6:25 pm
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mthorn00 wrote:
Brother the 5 way switch was designed and purpose built to allow players to more easily hit the "out of phase" position between the stops on a 3 way switch.Your unbelievably "sweet tone" achieved with the 3 way switch could have been due to the specific pickups on the guitar and/or the pickups in combination with the amp you were using at the time (or even just "warm fuzzy memories" from a drug hazy time).


Your general observations here well cover basic points. My experience with this dates back 50 years to a '58 guitar and drug free gigs. Different everything. When Fender introduced the five-way, there were other changes happening in the electronics. The sound of a '58 guitar and its predecessors is a totally different vibe and the likes of them have not been seen since unless one happens to be an original owner.

With Knopfler, I suspect there's more to that tone than just the 'sweet switch'
We knowl little of his amp settings, and that finger style of playing is a whole 'nuther thing in itself.

Doc :wink:

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Posted: Tue Nov 11, 2008 6:28 pm
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If you watch knopflers fingerstyle its very percussive with a level of attack more akin to a bass player.

Still thats for another thread, sorry to divert.


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Posted: Wed Nov 12, 2008 8:15 am
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zzdoc wrote:
With Knopfler, I suspect there's more to that tone than just the 'sweet switch'
We knowl little of his amp settings, and that finger style of playing is a whole 'nuther thing in itself.


Very true. Though one thing we do know about Knopfler's entire rig is that it seems to be utterly different on an almost weekly basis. I'm sure there must be players who've run through a greater variety of amps and pedals than him - but I'm struggling to think of one right now.

And yet that Knopfler sound is one of the more distinctive ones out there, and comes through regardless of the gear. Instructive...

Back to the thread: have you tried changing your switch yet, rmaddelein?

(Maddelein: there's a joke in there about Rememberance of Guitar Tones Past, for those as wants to look for it. Others will just wonder what the heck Ceri's on about this time...)

Cheers - C


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Posted: Wed Nov 12, 2008 8:40 am
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since we are talking about knopfler and his sound/gear here are some nice interwievs i found the other day:
http://www.geocities.com/Nashville/3399/interv.htm

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