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Post subject: Extracting broken tuner screw
Posted: Fri Oct 03, 2008 4:40 pm
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Be so glad if anyone has ideas on how to get a broken machine head screw out of the timber without damage.

I was fitting a set of "vintage" style tuners to a new neck. Double drilled each hole to allow for the unthreaded section of the screw. Six tightened firmly but not too tight. While tightening the seventh it suddenly sheared and broke off at a point about 1/16th inch/2 mm beneath the surface of the wood.

I have a spare screw, but how to get out the stump of the old one?

There are tools called "screw extractors", but the smallest size is for larger screws than this. And they tend to be designed to work on metal flush with the wood surface.

Of course, I may just have to drill it out, fill the hole with a dowel, cap with maple veneer and then refinish, prior to redrilling a fresh hole. The problem is not only the tedium of such a repair on a brand new neck; it is that this "vintage" neck has the honey lacquer finish on it, and I know from experience it is a desperate job trying to match that shade exactly.

So if there's anyone here with a fantastically clever engineering type solution, now is the moment to display your brilliance! I'll fill the page with thanks if you can come up with something...

Here's the pic: cheers - C

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Post subject: Re: Extracting broken tuner screw
Posted: Fri Oct 03, 2008 5:47 pm
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Ceri wrote:
Of course, I may just have to drill it out, fill the hole with a dowel, cap with maple veneer and then refinish, prior to redrilling a fresh hole.


Ouch. That's what I did on some broken off cavity screws on a Les Paul, well, only the drill out and dowel parts.

It's not a visible spot, so I don't think you would need to worry about veneer and refinishing, but it's your guitar.

Good Luck.

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Posted: Fri Oct 03, 2008 7:06 pm
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Thats a tough one Ceri. I read an article that Warmoth uses a piece of 3/16 hobby tubing with small teeth they file into it were it will fit just over screw body and cut the wood the threads bite in. They said you turn it just past the depth of the screw and wiggle it till the plug come out. Then take a 1/4 dowl sand it down and plug. Kind of like making a micro hole saw of your own. I have seen the tubing in the local hobby store and seems to be easy to find so you may want to try it. I have not had to but I think I would give it a shot.

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Posted: Sat Oct 04, 2008 10:02 am
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cvilleira wrote:
Thats a tough one Ceri. I read an article that Warmoth uses a piece of 3/16 hobby tubing with small teeth they file into it were it will fit just over screw body and cut the wood the threads bite in. They said you turn it just past the depth of the screw and wiggle it till the plug come out. Then take a 1/4 dowl sand it down and plug. Kind of like making a micro hole saw of your own. I have seen the tubing in the local hobby store and seems to be easy to find so you may want to try it. I have not had to but I think I would give it a shot.


That is a neat idea, I really like that! Anything to keep the hole as small as possible. Thanks very much for that.

I'm just going to wait around a day or two and see if there are any other suggestions and then get to work. Unless I goof up really badly I'll post a picture of how I get on...

Thanks, guys - C


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Posted: Sat Oct 04, 2008 10:07 am
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if there's even the tiniest piece sticking out of the wood you can use a soldering iron. Get the iron hot and put the tip of it on the broken screw end. It will burn away the wood gripping it in place. Get the screw good and hot then pull it free with pliers or tweezers. If you need to use tweezers it may take a couple of goes.

obviously remove the other machine heads before heating but you already knew that. :)

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Posted: Sat Oct 04, 2008 10:18 am
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Thanks Niki. That's another one I didn't know.

Unfortunately, the screw broke off a couple of mil beneath the surface of the wood, which adds to the difficulty considerably.

However, I have a growing sheaf of notes stuffed into the back of my copy of the Guitar Player Repair Guide, and both these ideas are getting added to it, for use now or later.

I bought the tuners from WD UK and spoke to Ben to get a replacement screw. I was trying to assure him I'd not turned the screw too agressively, but he said they had exactly the same thing happen to them at WD with a set of Gotohs. That's actually a pretty expensive tuner by "vintage" standards: maybe Gotoh need to source some better quality screws!

Once again, thanks, people - C


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Posted: Sat Oct 04, 2008 10:24 am
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it could still work if you can find a bit of metal that fits in the hole and conducts heat well (the broken screw head is the best bet) and something to dig it out with. You will cause damage to the surrounding area but nothing that cant be doweled with a matchstick and it will be alot less intrusive than drilling it out.

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Posted: Sat Oct 04, 2008 10:50 am
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Sorry I don't have any good ideas like Niki but ya'll are way over my skill level! Hope you get it fixedCeri!! I always take my problems to a tech. :(


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Posted: Sat Oct 04, 2008 10:58 am
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Thanks, F. The worst that can happen is a tiresome repair in a spot that won't show much if at all. But I'd love to find a better way if there is one. I've learnt good ideas on this thread already, so it ain't all bad.

Cheers - C


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Posted: Sun Oct 05, 2008 2:52 pm
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Please let us know what you did/how it turned out.

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Posted: Mon Oct 06, 2008 4:14 pm
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orvilleowner wrote:
Please let us know what you did/how it turned out.


Hi Orvilleowner. Here's a better pic of the problem. You can see how deep the stump of the screw is. Nothing to get a grip on even if I burn out the wood around the threads with transmitted heat from a soldering iron, like Niki's suggesting:

Image

I had a couple of ideas of my own that I wanted to try. I figured if only there was a slot in the top of that bit of screw I could get a tiny screwdriver down there and just wind it out. How to create a slot?

I found a very small engraving bit for the Dremel and wondered if I could reach into the hole and carve a slot into the metal:

Image

I did manage it to an extent, but not enough to create a slot the screwdriver would grip on. Every time I tried to turn it the metal sheared and the problem just got worse.

Plan B was to drill a roughly conical hole into the middle of the screw with decreasing sized drill bits, like the one in the picture. Then jam my tiniest allen key firmly into the hole and again, just wind the screw out. And again it didn't work: just mashed the metal further.

And at that point I gave up. The wood at the mouth of the screw hole was starting to get damaged and there was nothing much left to save. So finally I just drilled the screw out with a three mil bit, dragged out the resulting metal filings with a magnet and now am carving a dowel to fill it with. Even though it won't show beneath the tuners I am kinda nettled by this damage to a new neck and so I will cap that dowel with a small circle of maple veneer and refinish it to get the best repair I can, prior to redrilling and fitting the machines.

It'll take a few days for the lacquer to dry enough for buffing, and then I'll photograph it again for you to see how it turned out. Unless I completely botch the job, that is, within which case we'll just tactfully let this thread sink forgotten into the mud...!

BTW: I went and bought some five mil brass tubing for the repair C Villeira suggested. Just a touch too big for this job, but I'm (almost) hoping for an opportunity to try that one out, because it is such a smart idea!

Thanks again, fellas - C


Last edited by Ceri on Mon Oct 06, 2008 4:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Posted: Mon Oct 06, 2008 4:20 pm
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I consider myself lucky that I can change strings.

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Posted: Mon Oct 06, 2008 4:45 pm
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im staying away from gotohs.

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Posted: Mon Oct 06, 2008 4:50 pm
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Ceri wrote:
orvilleowner wrote:
Please let us know what you did/how it turned out.


Hi Orvilleowner. Here's a better pic of the problem. You can see how deep the stump of the screw is. Nothing to get a grip on even if I burn out the wood around the threads with transmitted heat from a soldering iron, like Niki's suggesting:

Image

I had a couple of ideas of my own that I wanted to try. I figured if only there was a slot in the top of that bit of screw I could get a tiny screwdriver down there and just wind it out. How to create a slot?

I found a very small engraving bit for the Dremel and wondered if I could reach into the hole and carve a slot into the metal:

Image

I did manage it to an extent, but not enough to create a slot the screwdriver would grip on. Every time I tried to turn it the metal sheared and the problem just got worse.

Plan B was to drill a roughly conical hole into the middle of the screw with decreasing sized drill bits, like the one in the picture. Then jam my tiniest allen key firmly into the hole and again, just wind the screw out. And again it didn't work: just mashed the metal further.

And at that point I gave up. The wood at the mouth of the screw hole was starting to get damaged and there was nothing much left to save. So finally I just drilled the screw out with a three mil bit, dragged out the resulting metal filings with a magnet and now am carving a dowel to fill it with. Even though it won't show beneath the tuners I am kinda nettled by this damage to a new neck and so I will cap that dowel with a small circle of maple veneer and refinish it to get the best repair I can, prior to redrilling and fitting the machines.

It'll take a few days for the lacquer to dry enough for buffing, and then I'll photograph it again for you to see how it turned out. Unless I completely botch the job, that is, within which case we'll just tactfully let this thread sink forgotten into the mud...!

BTW: I went and bought some five mil brass tubing for the repair C Villeira suggested. Just a touch too big for this job, but I'm (almost) hoping for an opportunity to try that one out, because it is such a smart idea!

Thanks again, fellas - C



Hope you get it out. Before there is too much damage, mabe you can take to a professional? If you do manage to get it out yourself, you have the patients of a saint. Good Luck...I did see a comercial the other day that states that you can use a particular product (can't remember the name) that you can drill into broken screws/bolts and then use the other side to extract. Not sure if it had a bit small enough for that job though.

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Post subject:
Posted: Mon Oct 06, 2008 5:11 pm
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All the best with that one mucka. I've a 1.5mm metal bit if you want it. small enough not to damage the surround if your slow enough but its a fine balance to still drill fast enough to make a impact on the screw without screwing it right the way through the wood.

Looks a thankless task all ways round. :(

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