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Post subject: Strat Setup
Posted: Mon Aug 06, 2007 10:03 am
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Hi...

I have 2 strats, both MIM. I'm selling one, the other I want to keep and love... but it's got some issues. I tried following the setup guide, and for intonation, it seems the scale length of the neck is bigger than it can possibly be.

I've tried measuring in several different ways, but the double always comes out as more than I can possibly set the bridge to. Middle of the 12th fret wire, closest to the nut, but measured from inside the nut, is 33mm. Doubled, that's 66 and the string one briodge couldn't go back that far.

I'm sure it's up here someplace, but I just haven't found it yet. Can someone please tell me why, if I follow the strat setup guide, the double length of the nut to the 12th fret is bigger then the possible settings for the bridge? :?:

The guitar is never completely in tune. It's in tune, then playing its out of tune, and I can see that the bridge is set wrong just visually by how the setup guide describes the offsets. I bought the strat used, and it's in very, very nice shape. Just want it to play correctly all of the time and be in tune after it's tuned! :roll:

Please help, and thanks!


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Posted: Mon Aug 06, 2007 10:10 am
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I'm not sure how you're measuring, but it just seems that you're doing something wrong. How is the truss rod ? Maybe a neck relief issue ?

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Posted: Mon Aug 06, 2007 10:31 am
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Truss rod was a tiny bit tight. The previous owner had heavier strings but still no concave. I guess he was trying to get the neck as flat as possible.

Here are some pics of the measurements:

Image

Image

Image

See what I mean? At the 12th fret wire, it's 304mm's. Double that would be 608mm's (or if I'm measuring from the wrong fret wire, then 322mm's, which would double to 644mm's... I don't think the screw is long enough to move that bridge to 644 (may be 646). I can probably just BARELY get it to 646mm, but it'll be on the very first set of threads of the screw, barely hanging on...

Whatdoyathink??? What am I doing wrong??? Thanks!


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Posted: Mon Aug 06, 2007 1:25 pm
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Is the bridge flush to the body? If it isn't, you could float it, and that would give you some more room to work with.


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Posted: Mon Aug 06, 2007 2:10 pm
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Yes, it's flat against the body. But, how is it supposed to be normally?

Is this setup an unusual one? JUst doesn't seem correct to me...


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Posted: Mon Aug 06, 2007 2:26 pm
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I can't seem to figure out what your talking about. What is it your actually trying to do? Find the scale? That's in inches from nut to bridge. Or are you trying to find out if your frets are installed in the right place?

Are you trying to get the intonation set? When your intonating you really shouldn't have to worry about what the precise measurements are supposed to be. Each guitar will be alittle different from the next. Not every single guitar intonates exactly the same. There's alot of different things that determine what intonation is supposed to be, string gauges for one.

You should just worry about getting the intonation correct for every string, then it will be perfect (or as close as you can possibly get it). From the looks of your saddles in that picture, that guitar is probably not intonated. Saddles are not usually straight even across like that.


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Posted: Mon Aug 06, 2007 2:53 pm
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I decided some time ago to do my own setups, rather than pay a shop tech to do it regularly. So, I bought a set of automotive feeler guages (which had a small ruler as one of it's swing-out arms), grabbed a Phillips screwdriver and the set of hex wrenches, and put on my first new set of strings. The sound was incredible!

If you don't have one, you can download a Stratocaster owner's manual from the Fender Support area on this site. It runs through a factory setup from step one to finish. It includes everything from adjusting the neck, to tweaking the bridge and tremolo settings. Start with the recommended settings. As time goes by, you can experiment and vary those to suit your evolving playing preferences. An electronic tuner of some sort REALLY helps in adjusting the balancing act between about 150 pounds of string tension and the guitar's hardware settings. Remember, make an adjustment anywhere and you need to recheck the tuning of all six strings and the settings on previous steps before moving on.

If you don't wah-wah with a whammy bar, it's perfectly O.K. to set up with the tremolo flush to the body. Just make the proper tremolo adjustments or add extra temolo springs beneath the guitar's backplate. That's covered in the manual, also.

Unless you're going to engineer and design a guitar from raw materials, I'd set aside that long tape measure. You don't really need it for a setup.


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Posted: Mon Aug 06, 2007 3:31 pm
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Hi...

Yes, I actually GOT that info from the Strat setup guide. It says:

INTONATION (ROUGHING IT OUT)
You can preset the basic intonation of your guitar by taking a tape measure and measuring from the inside of the nut to the center of the 12th fret (the fret wire itself; not the fingerboard). Double that measurement to find the scale length of your guitar. Adjust the first-string bridge saddle to this scale length, measuring from the inside of the nut to the center of the bridge saddle. Now adjust the distance of the second-string saddle back from the first saddle, using the gauge of the second string as a measurement. For example, If the second string is .011" (0.3 mm), you would move the second-string saddle back .011" (0.3 mm) from the first saddle. Move the third saddle back from the second saddle using the gauge of the third string as a measurement. The fourth-string saddle should be set parallel with the second-string saddle. Proceed with the fifth and sixth saddles with the same method used for strings two and three.

Going by the above, it's simply not possible with this guitar as far as I can see. Yes, it's definitely set incorrectly and that's why I want to get it correct. When I tune it, it's perfect all open, but as you start to play, the tonal values are off...

For what it's worth, I have 8 guitars... 2 MIM Strats, a Martin 5-15 baby acoustic, an Applause 12 string acoustic (had that for almost 30 years), an Ovation 6 string Acoustic/Electric (had that for 25 years), an Alvarez R20C Acoustic/Electric classical cutaway guitar, and two Matrin backpackers, one nylon, the other steel.

I used to have a Fender Mustang which I got new in 1964 and sold in the 70s some time.

I love this strat, and want it to sound as close to perfect as I can get it to sound. Nothing worse than having it tuned (yes, I have 2 electronic tuners), and then play it and have it flat or sharp when it shouldn't be!


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Posted: Mon Aug 06, 2007 4:00 pm
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I think the key phrase is "rough out". If all is in order in the previous setup steps, its time to adjust the saddle/s to fine-tune the intonation. This is a bit tedious, at first, and an electronic tuner is extremely helpful. As strings age, you can have all six in basic open-string tune, but may have to tweak a tremolo saddle on one or two to keep the intonation spot-on. Remember to recheck the open-string tuning on the other five strings before moving to the next saddle.

Remember, too, the brand, guage, and metal properties of a string will affect it's overall playing length after proper setup. The heat from your fingers when playing can slightly affect intonation as the metal in the string expands. I finger-pick a few tunes before setting intonation to account for this.


Last edited by Tiednbound on Mon Aug 06, 2007 4:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Posted: Mon Aug 06, 2007 4:04 pm
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New strings... .09 - .42 D'Addario...

Even with the old strings it wasn't right... I just want to get it close adn it's sort of close now...


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Posted: Wed Aug 08, 2007 9:44 am
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i tune to standard pitch and then i check height of my tremelo.1/8 is the height i keep it at.then i detune to a 1/2 step from standard tuning and
i make sure i keep at least that height of mt trem.then i check for my tuning
stability and my intonation at twelve frets.it,s worked for more than thirty
years of playing my strats.make sure your saddles are even or some people
set theirs with curvature of neck.good luck
:D


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Posted: Wed Aug 08, 2007 12:50 pm
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Thanks Cajun...

HEre's what I've done so far. I tried the measuring thing, and it wasn't working well for me, but the OTHER Strat is in good tune always, so I started by setting the bridges to mimic those, and it worked pretty well. It's still a tiny bit off, but pretty much everything has to be adjusted on this strat. To be honest, I still haven't figured out how to adjust the tremlo bridge plate, even after reading the setup guide. i can't mess with this now, but I'll try again tonight. In a few days, I think I'll have this strat as perfect as it can be... I hope


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Post subject:
Posted: Wed Aug 08, 2007 1:50 pm
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My guitar teacher builds guitars as well. He showed me how to setup my guitars. It's very straight forward and saved me lots of money over the years. The local guitar repair God charges $75 to setup a guitar. He does great work, but this is a job I can do myself.


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Post subject:
Posted: Wed Aug 08, 2007 2:03 pm
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It's frustrating cause it's not going exactly how Fender's guide suggests. I even tried open string tuning and checking it in the 12th fret, and it's always off a bit...

I just want to be able to pick up this strat and play it without it offending my sense of tone!


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Post subject:
Posted: Mon Sep 10, 2007 11:06 am
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You're 12th fret measurement should be 32,4 mm, double that for the high
E-string (64,8 mm). If the intonationscrew is to short get a longer one.
I've had the same problem with a Mex Standard Telecaster, but never with
the classic series from Mexico, Japanese Fenders or American Fenders.
On the picture you're measuring from the 11th fret, one fret short.
Further advice; 010's for stings, medium action (2mm high E, 2,5 low E).
A slight bow in the neck, about .010'' clearence.
Also don't set you're pickups to high, 2mm high E-string and 2,5 low E-string, press the strings down on the last fret for this measurement
Maybe some more on the neck p.u. 3mm.
For 30 years this has been my set-up plan, no shred machine but a
working man's blues guitar with a good sound and very little buzzes.

Peter, The Netherlands/Europe.


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