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Post subject: tuning problem / Strat doing weird things
Posted: Tue Sep 16, 2008 5:32 pm
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Hey everyone. Long time reader, first time poster.

Today I plugged my hwy 1 Strat in and just started noodling around. At some point, I played my low E and let it ring while i bent a note on a different string, and my low E dropped a ton in pitch. I plugged into my tuner to make sure I wasn't hearing things, and I wasn't. I tested out a couple other strings, letting them drone while i bent notes, and got the same result!

I've had this guitar for about 6 or 7 months now, and I can't imagine it's been doing this all along...I'm sure I would've noticed. Does anyone know what might be wrong with it? I recently moved, so could it be a humidity problem in my room or something?

At any rate, it's bugging the heck out of me!


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Posted: Tue Sep 16, 2008 6:37 pm
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That's what happens when you have a floating bridge.

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Posted: Tue Sep 16, 2008 6:55 pm
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...which is why I don't use floating bridges..or on my strats that have one I add more springs.

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Posted: Tue Sep 16, 2008 7:43 pm
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Right now, the bridge is pretty flush with the body...but would adding 2 more springs have any effect on action of my guitar?


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Posted: Tue Sep 16, 2008 8:04 pm
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Not at all. The action has to do with the neck condition..the truss rod adjustment vs. string tension..and the bridge saddle height. (which you could lower if the extra springs cause the action to raise..and that depends on how it's currently set up). However you state it's currently flush so adding springs should not have an effect.

The extra springs would make it more difficult (or improbable if enough tension) to move the bridge by string bending...hence your other strings will not go flat during bends.

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Posted: Tue Sep 16, 2008 8:43 pm
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It sounds like your move light affect the guitar. Also, when was the last time you changed strings? If it was recently did you try a different gauge?

A trip to the local luthier for a setup will remedy your problem.
Remember to 'set' the strings by stretching them as you put them on too.


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Posted: Tue Sep 16, 2008 9:20 pm
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Thanks a lot ebay. I'll head out sometime this week and buy a couple springs to put in. Hopefully that'll solve the problem.

Strat God - I try to change strings once a month or so, but the ones I have on now have been on for a much longer. A new set probably wouldn't hurt any.


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Posted: Wed Sep 17, 2008 9:00 am
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With the deepest of respect to everyone, I am wondering whether there is a some confusion going on here between a flush bridge and a blocked one.

One string dropping in pitch when another is bent is something that will happen regardless of whether the bridge is set floating or non-floating (flush). Laws of physics.

Extra springs will reduce, though not remove, the effect. They will also of course make the handling of the trem much firmer, which you may or may not like. A complete fresh setup will be required.

As we were discussing on another thread, a Tremsetter is a possible solution to this issue, though many people don't like what they do to the feel of the whammy, and some think they adversely affect tone. I believe I recall that ZZDoc said they were standard on some Strat models in the 1980s (I couldn't afford those models at that time!). There is a reason they didn't catch on.

When bending strings against held notes elsewhere on the neck the solution is to slightly bend the held note up as well, to compensate for the flattening. A bent third string against a held second, for instance. Unfortunately, there is no complete solution to stabilize open string notes when others are being bent, apart from blocking the trem or playing a fixed bridge guitar. Part of the reason sultans of fingerbending, such as Jerry Donahue, often play Teles.

On Strats it is an issue most of us just live with. Don't bend too much against open strings!

Cheers - C


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Posted: Wed Sep 17, 2008 9:07 am
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Ceri wrote:
... Extra springs will reduce, though not remove, the effect. They will also of course make the handling of the trem much firmer, which you may or may not like. A complete fresh setup will be required ...

Agreed. I went with a fresh pro setup when I added a 4th spring (making bridge flush w/ body), new saddles, and pups. The setup made all the difference, especially with adding into the mix those hot Tex Mex alnico 5s! :wink:

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Posted: Wed Sep 17, 2008 12:07 pm
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This bending notes and the open strings going kind of flat never happens to me on a guitar only unless it has the floating bridge.

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Posted: Wed Sep 17, 2008 12:11 pm
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I don't understand why some are making this so complicated.

Does this particular ax use a different kind of tremelo then a standard Fender? All of the Fenders we have here use 4 springs. We just added the extra springs ourselves and they work fine with no flattening during bends or going out of tune etc. No additional setup was required whatsoever.

So am I missing something here?

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Posted: Wed Sep 17, 2008 12:16 pm
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I think whats happening is it's a floating bridge and when he bends it pulls up on the bridge & makes the lower string go flat, but even if your bending a string most likely you won't be playing the lower string at the same time anyway. I think it also did that with my Floyd Rose on my ESP in the past but since I don't have that guitar anymore I really can't remember anyway.

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Posted: Wed Sep 17, 2008 12:26 pm
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abombaci wrote:
I think whats happening is it's a floating bridge and when he bends it pulls up on the bridge & makes the lower string go flat, but even if your bending a string most likely you won't be playing the lower string at the same time anyway. I think it also did that with my Floyd Rose on my ESP in the past but since I don't have that guitar anymore I really can't remember anyway.


Agree. It sounds exactly like that is wha'ts happening..all logic dictates this.

And ALL floating bridges will have this sympton...

I have had floating setups (Floyd roses) in the past but I hate them. However the flattening thing (although it happened)..wasn't an issue as far as my playing. I just hated tuning them and got sick of the style music that uses it.

But a standard strat bridge is generally not floated if it is "flush". So all adding an extra spring or 2 does is increase the tension...how on earth does it effect the setup or action?????

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Posted: Wed Sep 17, 2008 1:14 pm
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Ebaysux

because the trem is pulled back and down (diagonaly) it lowers the action.
It can also affect the intonation too IF the guitar is sensitive to intonation problems. It all depends on how the guitar is set prior to moving the trem. If the action is high and the trems only floating 2mm up you wont notice much diff. If its low and the trem floats at 5mm up it could well buzz when the trems flush.

Intonation is a grey area. ive got some guitars that never need adjusting you can string em up with 8's or 12's and never need to move the saddles. Ive got a esp that if you look at a bit funny the whole bridge needs re-setting. I have no idea why this is in either case.

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Posted: Wed Sep 17, 2008 1:27 pm
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nikininja wrote:
Ebaysux

because the trem is pulled back and down (diagonaly) it lowers the action.
It can also affect the intonation too IF the guitar is sensitive to intonation problems. It all depends on how the guitar is set prior to moving the trem. If the action is high and the trems only floating 2mm up you wont notice much diff. If its low and the trem floats at 5mm up it could well buzz when the trems flush.

Intonation is a grey area. ive got some guitars that never need adjusting you can string em up with 8's or 12's and never need to move the saddles. Ive got a esp that if you look at a bit funny the whole bridge needs re-setting. I have no idea why this is in either case.


Thanks for the reply nikininja. I understand what you are saying totally. However the original post does not state that this ax has a floating tremelo. And in later posts it is stated that the bridge is flush.

So from that I would think it safe to deduce that it is not floating but perhaps a lack of spring tension is allowing bridge movement during bends, hence other strings going flat, or as the original poster stated..."my low E dropped a ton in pitch". I don't believe anything but insufficient spring tension would cause such a drastic drop in pitch. So the logical solution is to add tension...which is easily accomplished by adding springs (ala Hendrix). And Hendrix used all 5 springs and had no problem using the trem.

So unless there is something else going on with the posters ax that I am unaware of...why suggest string changes and set ups etc?

Unless of course a floating setup is desired. In that case you would have to live with the issue since the spring tension needs to be compensated for the string tension in order for the bridge to actually "float"..allowing for bridge movment in both directions. No amount of setup, intonation or string changes can prevent the bridge from moving during bends in that case. See my point. In other words if you increase the string tension by using fatter strings..you would have to compensate to keep the bridge floating by using more spring tension regardless, and visa-versa.

In that case it may require tweaking..but it would still do the same thing if it's floating..that's a natural by-product of a bridge that moves both directions and really is non issue if you play it properly. My bigger concern with floating bridges is keeping in tune..which is way I shy away from them altogether.

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Last edited by ebaysux on Wed Sep 17, 2008 1:57 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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