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Post subject: compound radius fretboard set-up
Posted: Fri Sep 05, 2008 9:46 am
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I know this is a Fender site, but I have a question for you stratophiles of great knowledge.
I purchased a Charvel Strat from a pawn shop a while ago. The fretboard was damaged from a fall, but the body is in very good condition. I recently found a Jackson neck for it. I want to set this guitar up properly with the new neck. It has a compound radius fretboard that goes from 12'' to 16'' radius. Do I set up the vintage style tremelo saddles for a 12", 14" or 16" to match the curve of the fretboard? How does Jackson do it.
I also need to shim the neck a tiny bit. What is the best material to use? I don't have a woodshop to create a nice smooth shim, so I must improvise. Any ideas on mounting this neck. Once it is done, it will be a nice axe.


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Posted: Fri Sep 05, 2008 11:05 am
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On the set up its a case of try and tweak, Adjust the action to what you think is comfortable then perfect it. As you have probably researched theres no sure fire way to set compound radius action up.
With neck relief go with the fender spec's. Its a very generic measurement which i personaly find to be too much for fender but great for gibbo's.
My jacksons a 10-16 but its got a jt580 trem which is flat so it negates alot of the action confusion.

with shims, the best sounding material ive found is leather. I prefer it to wooden shims.
Post a pic when your done please.

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Posted: Fri Sep 05, 2008 6:24 pm
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Well, I'm sure it has become clear over time that I have enormous respect for what Nikininja says, given the amount of battlefield experience he has. But for once I am going to - very politely - disagree with what he's saying. And then you can take your pick.

Firstly, I'd take a good look at the stuff on compound radius 'boards in the Guitar Player Repair Guide. Don't have it with me at this moment, but I seem to recall Dan quote's Don MacRostie's formula concerning compound dimensions, which helps a lot if you really want to get scientific about it.

More broadly, there's two different ways to look at it.

1. If the 'board goes from 12 to 16 inches by the time it reaches the 22nd fret, then if it went on as far as the bridge it would be flatter still. That formula will tell you exactly what, but for the sake of argument somewhere around 18/19 inches. So if you want your string curve to match the fingerboard exactly then you'll have to set the saddles to something like that very gentle radius - in the region of 18 inches.

2. A completely contrary way to think about it comes from the way Taylor guitars are set up. On some of their guitars (maybe all, I don't know) including the recent solid bodies, they have a 15 inch radius fingerboard, but then set the strings to a tighter 12 inch radius above it. Moreover, they set the low E higher than the top e, and the strings inbetween accordingly. The end result is a gentle arc of the fingerboard with a steeper arc of the strings above it, that top arc tilted so that it is lower on the treble side. This gives low action on the treble, higher on the bass and a bit of extra air beneath the strings in the middle.

Curious - but I doubt you've ever heard anyone complaining about the setup of Taylor guitars: they're rather famous for it.

The application of all this to a compound radius would be that you would actually want a slightly too steep arc at the bridge, proportionately. So if the 'board is 16 inches at the 22nd fret, then make the saddles 16 inches too, or even a touch steeper, 15 maybe.

On the other hand, Nikininja actually owns a Charvel, so I wouldn't discount what he has to say, either. That man knows his stuff. So I'm not exactly going to disagree with his leather shim idea, cos I've never tried that.

But I do find hardwood veneer ideal for the job, maple being an obvious choice to match the neck. You can buy veneer cheaply in small pieces from online suppliers to the craft/hobby/marquetry market. A quarter inch piece between the back end of the neck pocket and the near screws is the place to start. If adding a second piece beneath it make it half or three quarters of an inch long, so's you are building a little flight of steps: and you can just tickle off the front lip of each step of veneer to help the under side of the neck heel contact the surface a little better. Sanding to a perfect wedge would be ideal - well, you can try!

A very long post: any use?

Cheers - C


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Posted: Fri Sep 05, 2008 7:03 pm
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Hmmm
Both points on compound radius make perfect sense Ceri, i stand corrected thankyou. Using leather shims is no good beyond 2 or 3 mm. you only want a couple 'o' three of layers at most and add them at intervals of about a month apart. It does however have a very nice habit of binding with the wood over time.

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Posted: Fri Sep 05, 2008 7:11 pm
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Do you make your own leather shims?

How much do they compress?

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Posted: Fri Sep 05, 2008 7:14 pm
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nikininja wrote:
Hmmm
Both points on compound radius make perfect sense Ceri, i stand corrected thankyou. Using leather shims is no good beyond 2 or 3 mm. you only want a couple 'o' three of layers at most and add them at intervals of about a month apart. It does however have a very nice habit of binding with the wood over time.


Where I'm seeing an advantage with a leather shim is that it would widen a little at one end, squeeze down at the other, and so give a better area of contact with the underneath of the neck heel. I'd be worried about the density not being high enough - but then in real life people have shimmed their necks with bits of old cigarette packet without noticeable sustain issues.

It is probably unnecessary to get too picky on this stuff. It's a guitar, not a spaceshuttle. Nobody gets hurt!

Cheers - C


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Posted: Sat Sep 06, 2008 4:51 pm
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orvilleowner wrote:
Do you make your own leather shims?

How much do they compress?


Ive a old bikers jacket in tatters in the cupboard, if i need a shim i just cut some off.
It compresses quite a bit the guitar needs looking at a month or 2 after its shimmed and then about 2 months after that time too. I wouldnt put anymore than three layers in it. The thing i like about it over maple is that it locks into the grain of the body. Its rare that i get a guitar that needs shimming at the headstock end of the neck joint that cant be sorted by sanding the bridge end of the neck pocket. I've never noticed any difference in tone by using leather shims at the bridge end of the socket.
How many people sand the finish off the bit of their neck that sits in the pocket? I think that layer of laquer has a far more dtrimental effect on tone than anything used to shin a neck, whether it be a old $@! packet or a bit of japanese oak.
Alder or ash could make a very good shim, untreated it would be hard to shape though. It would certainly bind into the bodywood more than maple and lets face it nothings ging to bind into a maple neck.

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