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Posted: Thu Aug 28, 2008 1:50 pm
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01GT eibach wrote:

Speaking for myself, I don't think the issue is so much that my guitar "won't" stay in tune, it actually does "pretty well" with trem use. But without using trem, my guitar stays in tune forever. Based on the other responses in this thread, I think it is safe to safe I am not the only one to make this observation on the Strat trem.


totaly agree.
I think peoples perceptions of intune are influenced by what they see from gigging guitarists. I just read a interview with claptons guitar tech, most gigs they play all his gear is on rollers, so its just roll it in, connect the leads and test it. he then spends upto 4 hours tuning EC's guitars (5 including his martin acoustics). Now that trem is blocked, those guitars gets a high level of care, as do most pro guitarists gear.
If you use 5 guitars set up for 4 hours for a 90minute jam you will get the same level of tuning stability too. Fact is all guitars slip a bit whether their blocked, tremmed, floyded or whatever.

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Posted: Thu Aug 28, 2008 2:54 pm
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I don't know, I use my MIM trems(one on a standard, and one on a Classic 50's) without any issues. A little attention to the nut slots and some pencil lead, it's not hard to keep strings from binding at the nut. The tuners on my MIMs are just fine and don't slip, I have no need or intention of spending money on locking tuners that I don't need. I use two wraps on the pegs for the wound strings, and three on the treble strings. There is a waxy type of lube on the pivot screws of the trem from the factory, and I just add some pencil lead shavings to it and both trems return to zero. I have them both set to float about 1/8" off of the body, it sounds better when using them for vibrato- up and down pitch vs down only when set flush with the body.

The strings must be fully stretched and settled or you'll fight with tuning until they stretch on there own, which could take quite a while. Seriously, this is all it takes to have stable tuning with trem use. I get pretty crazy with them occasionally and have no issues.


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Posted: Thu Aug 28, 2008 3:02 pm
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M. Brown wrote:
... I have no need or intention of spending money on locking tuners that I don't need ...

Agreed with that for me, too. Further, I don't think locking tuners (which are different from a 'locking nut') could make any difference with regards to trem use.

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Posted: Thu Aug 28, 2008 6:01 pm
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I used to go crazy on a Floyd Rose trem and thing never but never went out of tune ever.

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Posted: Fri Aug 29, 2008 7:49 pm
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01GT eibach wrote:
CAFeathers wrote:
If you are using the whammy and having problems with the guitar not staying in tune it is a setup issue. The nut and the saddles must be smooth as silk, the balance between the springs and the trem claw must be just right. I suggest having your guitar professionally setup.

Setup is not the issue. My git is professionally setup, has ace intonation, and well lubricated nut and saddles. I think a bunch of the others here have the same.

Speaking for myself, I don't think the issue is so much that my guitar "won't" stay in tune, it actually does "pretty well" with trem use. But without using trem, my guitar stays in tune forever. Based on the other responses in this thread, I think it is safe to safe I am not the only one to make this observation on the Strat trem.


Just devil's advocate..............but does the string gauge influence anything positively or negatively? For example, 9's versus 10's?


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Posted: Fri Aug 29, 2008 9:09 pm
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WhatsThatSmell wrote:
... does the string gauge influence anything positively or negatively? For example, 9's versus 10's?

I live in 9-42s for every electric I have owned.

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Posted: Sun Aug 31, 2008 9:53 am
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I've also been trying to deal with this issue. Currently, I have the HWY1 strat with the vintage trem. I did notice (and maybe this will help), that after playing for at least 20 or so minutes, and working the trem bar, the strings seemed to warm up, and I could then use the trem bar and not have any tuning issues. I also think, after playing it for a while, that I needed to work the trem bar a lot to get a feel for what it can or can't do. That is, I practiced using different levels of pressure or technique to the bar. When I figured out
"what works" with the string gauge, bar, etc., then I seemed to go out of tune less. It's not like a Floyd Rose where you can just wank on it (and I had a strat with a FR and you could do anything to it). Experimenting with pressure on the bar, lifting up to see if it brought it back in tune, and alternating how I used the bar seemed to help. I had a strat with a 2 point trem and that never seemed to go out of tune. I want to work with the vintage trem and see what it does, cause lots of forum members will give you some tech tips on how to keep it in tune. I guess the point of my post is that the trem bar, IMO, is not a tool just to be grabbed and yanked on (like a FR). I think you have to work it with your own hand strength, and ears to get a sense of how to use (not that I'm suggesting you don't know what you're doing! :D ). Check out some youtube clips of Jeff Beck - he never seems to go out of tune (er, probably cause he pays a guitar tech to make sure it doesn't happen). But he uses a variety of trem techniques that may give you an idea of what I'm talking about. Cheers, hope this helps a little!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1yGB6d_3n58


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Posted: Sun Aug 31, 2008 10:53 am
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01GT eibach wrote:
M. Brown wrote:
... I have no need or intention of spending money on locking tuners that I don't need ...

Agreed with that for me, too. Further, I don't think locking tuners (which are different from a 'locking nut') could make any difference with regards to trem use.

I get a little bemused at all the talk of trem instability. I've particularly heard solemn young beginners explaining that it is “well known” that Strats go out of tune - like that. Er, well, not well known to me or many on this thread. If your guitar keeps pitch badly then there is something wrong and the problem needs addressing.

Senderkik is right about strings: often this is a beginners’ issue and magically evaporates at the point strings start getting changed more than once every six months. 01GT eibach is far from a beginner, however, and I am confused as to what is going wrong for him: it is certainly not, as JimmyGuitarist said, “something you just have to live with”. 01’s read all the posts on this site (such as ronbeelgejr’s, above) about how to lubricate all the moving parts, and so forth. Maybe expectations are just too high. A regular Fender trem won’t stay in tune for ever under extreme EVH type treatment - which is why EVH moved to a Floyd.

But with moderate to medium trem use my Strats, both six-screw and two-point, keep pitch for a week or more at least - honestly.

A note on the locking tuners issue. You absolutely do not need locking tuners for good intonation. However, they do add a little something extra, and if you are working your trem hard then they can sometimes help. Simply because you only need half a wind or so of string on that post, and therefore there’s less scope for slippage and the malign effects of friction at that point. (Everyone is clear on the difference between locking tuners and a locking nut, aren’t they? Sometimes there’s confusion on that…). Raising the string tree a bit with a washer or replacing with a GraphTech is useful, too.

Cheers - C


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Posted: Sun Aug 31, 2008 3:43 pm
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Ceri wrote:
. A regular Fender trem won’t stay in tune forever under extreme EVH type treatment - which is why EVH moved to a Floyd.

+1 -- Yes - That is the unifying statement. For me, when I use trem it is for kinda that type of extreme use that (after not too long) will require a re-tune.

For me, though, I am okay with this. I spent decades playing Gibsons sans trem, and have come to the conclusion that -- for me personally -- I make better music without it. It took a couple of recent years of Strat-exploration to get there, but that's where it is for me. And without using trem, my guitar stays in tune for vast periods of time.

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Posted: Sun Aug 31, 2008 4:04 pm
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Ceri wrote:
If your guitar keeps pitch badly then there is something wrong and the problem needs addressing.


Listen to this man.

The most likely problems are
1) the strings are binding up in the nut, the slots aren't wide enough
2) the strings are improperly wound on the tuning pegs, not stable enough.

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Posted: Sun Aug 31, 2008 4:10 pm
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01GT eibach wrote:
Ceri wrote:
. A regular Fender trem won’t stay in tune forever under extreme EVH type treatment - which is why EVH moved to a Floyd.

+1 -- Yes - That is the unifying statement. For me, when I use trem it is for kinda that type of extreme use that (after not too long) will require a re-tune.

For me, though, I am okay with this. I spent decades playing Gibsons sans trem, and have come to the conclusion that -- for me personally -- I make better music without it. It took a couple of recent years of Strat-exploration to get there, but that's where it is for me. And without using trem, my guitar stays in tune for vast periods of time.


Hi, man: then if you really need to lay into your trem (and why not?) perhaps you should after all have a think about some nice locking Sperzels or Schallers. They are not going to make all the difference for you. But they should help a bit.

Like we talked about with your trem block, I am all for modding guitars when there is a good reason. And you may have one, as far as the tuners are concerned. And if you get the staggered pole Sperzels you can also get rid of your stringtree entirely, which is another potential intonation problem removed.

Maybe even an LSR roller nut would help you as well - but get to that later on, if really necessary.

Cheers - C


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Posted: Sun Aug 31, 2008 4:13 pm
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orvilleowner wrote:
Ceri wrote:
If your guitar keeps pitch badly then there is something wrong and the problem needs addressing.


Listen to this man.

The most likely problems are
1) the strings are binding up in the nut, the slots aren't wide enough
2) the strings are improperly wound on the tuning pegs, not stable enough.


Listen to that man, too!

It's a Mutual Appreciation Society... (yuk)

:wink: :wink: - C


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Posted: Sun Aug 31, 2008 4:18 pm
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i bought some nut sauce after reading this thread yesterday in a bid to get my vhr to return to pitch properly, its helped a lot. Still i maintain, you wont get 440hz constant tuning without the attention to detail that pro guitars get.

The vhr slips 1 or 2 cents after a good waggle (strings dumped on the pickups). Im happy with it you could certainly gig it and get away with the difference.

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Posted: Sun Aug 31, 2008 4:20 pm
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Ceri wrote:
It's a Mutual Appreciation Society... (yuk)


Maybe more like mutual assured destruction! (an old Ian Gillan song?)

Anyway, Ceri, are you done looking at the weird and wild Fender Japan models? They will stop at nothing!

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Posted: Sun Aug 31, 2008 4:56 pm
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orvilleowner wrote:
Ceri wrote:
It's a Mutual Appreciation Society... (yuk)


Maybe more like mutual assured destruction! (an old Ian Gillan song?)

Anyway, Ceri, are you done looking at the weird and wild Fender Japan models? They will stop at nothing!


Oh dear, Orvilleowner: what have you done? You showed me how to navigate websites in Japanese - and I told you that you mightn't hear from me for a day or two while I went shopping, which is how it indeed worked out...

The upshot is I seem to have aquired a Japanese Strat. Well, I believe everyone should have at least one Fiesta Red Strat - and I don't. I tried mixing that color once, according to Dan Erlewine's formula, and I got a very nice red, but not Fiesta. More of a Hotrod Red, or similar.

Also, one of my fads at present is period spec guitars, particularly regarding the necks: so I bought myself a Japanese 57 Reissue. After wading around the models the choice seemed to come down to the ST57-TX with Texas Specials, or the slightly cheaper ST57-US with USA Vintage pickups. I already have a guitar with TSs, so my wallet was glad to plump for the latter - we'll see what we make of those pups.

The absurd thing is I am currently building myself a guitar roughly the same as this one, so there's going to be a flurry of old-style Strats littering my house shortly.

OK, not quite as impetuous as Mr Hopkins' sudden order of a Gilmour, but still...

(By the way, are you around, F Hopkins? Been worried about this storm coming your way. Are you safe?)

Anyway - what was this thread about?

Cheers - C

EDITED - for incorrect apostrophe placement. Yes, truly! Get a life, Ceri...


Last edited by Ceri on Mon Sep 01, 2008 6:31 am, edited 1 time in total.

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