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Post subject: 1966 or 1967 Strat?
Posted: Mon Dec 09, 2019 8:37 am
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I was lucky enough to have been passed down this 1966/1967 Strat from my father-in-law. He is the original owner, and the guitar is completely original with all stock parts. I took it apart to try and get some dates and determined that the neck was built in August 1966 and the pickups dated December 1966. I would assume that this would be considered a '66 Strat but I also heard that sometimes the guitars incorporated parts that were produced earlier. So this could possibly be a '67? My understanding (though I could be wrong) is that there were not many, or any, significant changes to the Strat between '66 and '67, so I'm unsure which year this would be considered.

Anyone have any good insight?

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Post subject: Re: 1966 or 1967 Strat?
Posted: Mon Dec 09, 2019 9:31 am
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It could be either a '66 or '67 as you've correctly surmised.

Congrats on inheriting such a fine legacy.

Arjay

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Post subject: Re: 1966 or 1967 Strat?
Posted: Mon Dec 09, 2019 12:32 pm
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Retroverbial wrote:
It could be either a '66 or '67 as you've correctly surmised.

Congrats on inheriting such a fine legacy.

Arjay


Appreciate the reply! The serial number is also on the very latter end of the 1966-1967 range that Fender indicates. Given that, plus the late-December manufacture of the pickups, i feel like this would more likely be considered a '67. I believe the year is determined by the full assembly of the instrument. Though, I know there's probably no way to be certain for this particular guitar.

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Post subject: Re: 1966 or 1967 Strat?
Posted: Mon Dec 09, 2019 1:31 pm
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If/when the day comes to sell it, explain the facts as you know them and let the prospective buyer make of them what he will.

Arjay

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Post subject: Re: 1966 or 1967 Strat?
Posted: Mon Dec 09, 2019 1:53 pm
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What are the pot code ? These show the date too. If they are all 1966 guitar is a 1966 :D

If all parts show 1966 years, why guitar could be a 67 ?

From The Fender Stratocaster By A.R Duchossoir
How to date Stratocaster page 72

Your serial number ; 191396
1966 6 digits in the 100000 and the low 200000
1967 6 digits in the high 100000

To date a guitar, I'm surprised that very few people did not look at the pots who say a lot.


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Post subject: Re: 1966 or 1967 Strat?
Posted: Mon Dec 09, 2019 2:43 pm
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The pot codes don't really matter because the pickups date to December, the last month of the year. It's likely (though not certain) that final assembly of the instrument was completed mid-month and the guitar was shipped shortly after the first of the new year (1967) though it may have left Fullerton prior to the 31st of December. Leo's Christmas vacation policy (wisely maintained by CBS, at least at first) was very generous and much of the factory staff were probably home celebrating with family and friends after the third week of the month.

Arjay

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Post subject: Re: 1966 or 1967 Strat?
Posted: Mon Dec 09, 2019 3:53 pm
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To me built in '66 with parts made in '66 = '66 Strat.

Shipping does'nt matter


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Post subject: Re: 1966 or 1967 Strat?
Posted: Mon Dec 09, 2019 7:29 pm
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Its well known that Fender has/had a stock pile of parts that were date coded one year, used in the following year.

It's quite possible a guitar could have date codes on the parts from the yr before as they were clearing inventory

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Post subject: Re: 1966 or 1967 Strat?
Posted: Mon Dec 09, 2019 10:28 pm
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stratele52 wrote:
To me built in '66 with parts made in '66 = '66 Strat.

Shipping does'nt matter


If the instrument was received by the dealer subsequent to the first of the year, by law that makes it that year's model. If received prior to, then it's the prior year. That's regardless of how the pickups are marked, the neck is inked, or the pots are stamped. I don't know how you frogs in Quebec deal with such legal nuances and I pretty much don't give a damn.

Arjay

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Post subject: Re: 1966 or 1967 Strat?
Posted: Tue Dec 10, 2019 1:36 am
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Nice strat.
The headstock decal could be a 65...but other than that it is a 66/67 my favourite big headstock vintage strat years.
Consider yourself very fortunate to own one in such great condition. :D


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Post subject: Re: 1966 or 1967 Strat?
Posted: Tue Dec 10, 2019 2:44 am
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Retroverbial wrote:
stratele52 wrote:
To me built in '66 with parts made in '66 = '66 Strat.

Shipping does'nt matter


If the instrument was received by the dealer subsequent to the first of the year, by law that makes it that year's model. If received prior to, then it's the prior year. That's regardless of how the pickups are marked, the neck is inked, or the pots are stamped. I don't know how you frogs in Quebec deal with such legal nuances and I pretty much don't give a damn.

Arjay


For a car or a washing machine I could agree .
Regarding a vintage guitar , instead of being rude you could cite references to support your words ?

You have done me too much honor to consider that my opinion represents what all Quebec thinks.


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Post subject: Re: 1966 or 1967 Strat?
Posted: Tue Dec 10, 2019 7:10 am
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I have always reading people dating vintage gears by date on parts, not when the gear is on sale on the dealer.


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Post subject: Re: 1966 or 1967 Strat?
Posted: Tue Dec 10, 2019 9:41 am
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Dec 19, 1966 is the date the pickups were completed and put in a parts bin.

An assembler could have grabbed them that day and stuffed them into a guitar.

But they could have sat in the bin for months before being put in a guitar. Just as the neck hung on a rack for 4 months before the pickups were wound. Especially with them being completed just before everyone went home for the Christmas/New Year's holiday break. If they weren't used almost immediately, they couldn't have been used until Jan 2 '67 or later.

So Arjay is correct in saying it could be a late '66 or an early '67.

But Stratele52 is correct that the pot codes should be checked, just to be thorough. If they're '66 or earlier it doesn't change the conclusion -- could still have been assembled in '67. But if they're '67 pots, it was assembled in '67.

Really moot though. No spec changes '66~'67, and no value difference. Originality and condition are far more important than whether it was assembled just before Christmas or not until after New Year's.


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Post subject: Re: 1966 or 1967 Strat?
Posted: Tue Dec 10, 2019 10:02 am
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strayedstrater wrote:
No spec changes '66~'67, and no value difference.


For you maybe, IMO some buyer will pay more for a '66 than a '67 . I agree not few thousand more.....


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Post subject: Re: 1966 or 1967 Strat?
Posted: Tue Dec 10, 2019 10:11 am
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stratele52 wrote:
Retroverbial wrote:
stratele52 wrote:
To me built in '66 with parts made in '66 = '66 Strat.

Shipping does'nt matter


If the instrument was received by the dealer subsequent to the first of the year, by law that makes it that year's model. If received prior to, then it's the prior year. That's regardless of how the pickups are marked, the neck is inked, or the pots are stamped. I don't know how you frogs in Quebec deal with such legal nuances and I pretty much don't give a damn.

Arjay


For a car or a washing machine I could agree .
Regarding a vintage guitar , instead of being rude you could cite references to support your words ?

You have done me too much honor to consider that my opinion represents what all Quebec thinks.


1966? or 1967?
Mox nix, IMO (Translation for Louis, makes no difference, or more accurately, mahcts nichts)

For reference, I would cite this: http://www.guitarhq.com/pots.html
If you don't want to read the whole page, I'll quote the more salient points:

"The source-date code will signify the earliest possible date that the instrument or amp could have been made. This isn't going to be exact, but it will give you a "ball-park" age. And remember, even the dates indicated by the pots aren't that exact. For example, if you buy a brand new CTS pot today, they are dated a month or two in advance! It's worth mentioning since a lot of people rely on pot dates."

"Consideration and exceptions:
•Source-date codes weren't an industry standard until after WWII. But I have seen them used on Stackpole pots on electric National guitars as early as 1935. The first time date-source codes were published was 1924, so I guess you could see them as early as the late 1920's.
•Most Fenders from 1966 to 1969 have 1966 dated CTS pots. Apparently CBS/Fender bought a large stock of pots in 1966 that lasted till 1969."

Is this accurate? I don't know, it's just another internet reference that allegedly implies factual information.

I think it's safe to say at this point this particular example can't have been made prior to Dec. 19th, 1966. What does that date mean? Is that the date the pickups were wound? Potted? Assembled into the pickguard? The pickguard was tested?

jimmy_james wrote:
Nice strat.
The headstock decal could be a 65...but other than that it is a 66/67 my favourite big headstock vintage strat years.
Consider yourself very fortunate to own one in such great condition. :D

Now there is a statement I can agree with.

Insurance would definitely be a consideration for me, if I owned it.

Cheers


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