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Post subject: Lifting of CITES Ban on Rosewood for Musical Instruments
Posted: Mon Nov 11, 2019 8:25 pm
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Now that the CITES agreement changed their ban on rosewood for musical instruments, will Fender go back to rosewood fretboards on MIM guitars?


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Post subject: Re: Lifting of CITES Ban on Rosewood for Musical Instruments
Posted: Tue Nov 12, 2019 2:46 am
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Minnesotaman wrote:
Now that the CITES agreement changed their ban on rosewood for musical instruments, will Fender go back to rosewood fretboards on MIM guitars?


I would think without a doubt. Rosewood has always been considered an opulent timber, hence Fender introducing it over Maple to compete with Gibson back in the day. Pau Ferro just seems like a cheap substitute. A bit like The Queen announcing she will no longer be wearing real fur, fake fur is no real substitute so just don't bother.

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Post subject: Re: Lifting of CITES Ban on Rosewood for Musical Instruments
Posted: Tue Nov 12, 2019 6:19 am
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There really is nothing wrong with PF.
Nobody had a problem with it before CITES forced its use on import models, so it became associated with cheaper imports.
SRV specified it and it was a premium wood in the 80s.

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Post subject: Re: Lifting of CITES Ban on Rosewood for Musical Instruments
Posted: Tue Nov 12, 2019 8:37 am
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There are so many types of rosewood-like woods that are just as good.
There will never be a resurgence of Brazilian Rosewood, it has been banned since 1992 and is significantly responsible for the hype of the wood and also well deserved, it cannot be matched.
I think since the regulation lasted long enough to affect the industry, it will be re-introduced on LE, FSR and CS models mostly. Fender is all about the margins and the replacement woods are more widely accepted today, are as good and are somewhat cheaper while some are easier to work with.


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Post subject: Re: Lifting of CITES Ban on Rosewood for Musical Instruments
Posted: Tue Nov 12, 2019 9:09 am
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For manufacturers, there were a lot of regulations and red tape involved with buying East Indian rosewood before the ban, and all those are still in effect.

Years before the ban, Gibson got raided by the Feds and had their rosewood confiscated because their Indian suppliers had sold them boards that were too thick.

The demand gets bigger every year, while the supply gets smaller. So poor quality pieces that would have been rejected 20 years ago get used, with dyes to make them look presentable.

I doubt that rosewood will return to Fender's low-end to midrange models.


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Post subject: Re: Lifting of CITES Ban on Rosewood for Musical Instruments
Posted: Tue Nov 12, 2019 10:10 am
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IMHO rosewood boards are better than PF. Ebony better still I have four Fenders with rosewood boards, one maple and one PF which is my least favorite. There is no comparison between Brazilian rosewood and East Indian rosewood for bodies. BTW If you have 10,000+ dollars Taylor will make you a Brazilian rosewood guitar. Martin most likely also.


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Post subject: Re: Lifting of CITES Ban on Rosewood for Musical Instruments
Posted: Wed Nov 13, 2019 9:00 am
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Fender made the switch from ebony to rosewood for their American Ultra series.


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Post subject: Re: Lifting of CITES Ban on Rosewood for Musical Instruments
Posted: Wed Nov 13, 2019 9:01 am
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CB91710 wrote:
There really is nothing wrong with PF.
Nobody had a problem with it before CITES forced its use on import models, so it became associated with cheaper imports.
SRV specified it and it was a premium wood in the 80s.


Pau Ferro was also used on 5-string basses from 1990 to 2006.


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Post subject: Re: Lifting of CITES Ban on Rosewood for Musical Instruments
Posted: Sat Nov 16, 2019 10:46 am
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I call it Mia Farrow for laughs. I have one guitar with Mia farrow. The rest have Indian rosewood. I like them way better. Brazilian rosewood was not included in the latest cites reports. Its not coming back.


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Post subject: Re: Lifting of CITES Ban on Rosewood for Musical Instruments
Posted: Sat Nov 16, 2019 12:11 pm
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hexnut wrote:
Brazilian rosewood was not included in the latest cites reports. Its not coming back.

Another country's industry hamstrung by eco-friendly lunatics.

:roll:
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Post subject: Re: Lifting of CITES Ban on Rosewood for Musical Instruments
Posted: Sun Nov 17, 2019 8:39 am
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Retroverbial wrote:
hexnut wrote:
Brazilian rosewood was not included in the latest cites reports. Its not coming back.

Another country's industry hamstrung by eco-friendly lunatics.

:roll:
Arjay


When you see areas bigger than entire countries turned from forest into desert you have to accept that this sort of thing can't be allowed to continue unchecked.

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Post subject: Re: Lifting of CITES Ban on Rosewood for Musical Instruments
Posted: Sun Nov 17, 2019 9:03 am
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I agree, John. But how are you going to stop it? Are you prepared to take up arms and go to war? I'm betting not. Clear-cutting is a fool's errand anyway you slice it but that's not what this is about. It's about selectively harvesting a particularly useful and lucrative crop that, if managed correctly, is self-regenerating.

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Post subject: Re: Lifting of CITES Ban on Rosewood for Musical Instruments
Posted: Sun Nov 17, 2019 3:10 pm
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Yes, except it's more expensive to harvest individual trees in a jungle. So they hack everything down, and leave everything to rot except for the rare rosewood trees.

You can have laws allowing selective, sustainable tree harvesting. But millions of acres, hundreds of thousands of desperately poor people, and rich consumers willing to turn a blind eye to its source make it virtually impossible to enforce those laws.

It would be great if we could buy ivory sourced only from living elephants that had tusk aches. It'd be super expensive, but at least you could have an ivory nut if you wanted.

But the more ways there are to skirt the law, the more people do it.

Even with total bans, people still clear cut and still murder elephants. Allow any legitimate trade and they'd clear and kill even more.


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Post subject: Re: Lifting of CITES Ban on Rosewood for Musical Instruments
Posted: Sun Nov 17, 2019 3:26 pm
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So just where is all of that rosewood that's a byproduct of clear-cutting going? Certainly not for legitimate uses such as musical instrument manufacture. Frankly I don't have a clue as to why clear-cutting occurs. It's ain't to make room for condos, universities, or shopping malls. WTF are they doing down there???

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Post subject: Re: Lifting of CITES Ban on Rosewood for Musical Instruments
Posted: Sun Nov 17, 2019 4:23 pm
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Clearing it out to create ranch/farm land most likely.

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