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Post subject: Intonation Problem
Posted: Tue Aug 20, 2019 5:57 am
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I have a intonation problem with the 6th string of my Strat. When fretted at the 12th fret I get E a bit sharp, but the adjusting screw is all the way back and won´t allow me to lengthen the string.
Any suggestion?
Thanks

Marcos


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Post subject: Re: Intonation Problem
Posted: Sat Aug 24, 2019 3:38 pm
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Check neck bow, adjust truss rod if need or neck angle


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Post subject: Re: Intonation Problem
Posted: Sat Aug 24, 2019 5:41 pm
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It has never happened for me on higher quality guitars but there were two occasions in which entry level guitars presented me with the issue of not having enough travel in the saddle to get the intonation correct. Both times it was the 3rd string.

In the first case I could tell that it needed to move significantly so I took the saddle out of the guitar and took it over to a bench grinder where I removed about 1/16" from the threaded end of the (block) saddle. Then I filed a small bevel/chamfer on the squared edge and rounded the corners so as not to leave a sharp edge where somebody might cut themselves. It worked well. After I had it done I noticed that all of the saddles were further back than I was accustomed to seeing. I came to the suspicion that the posts may have been installed in the wrong location. I forget the brand of the guitar. J Turser, Sammick, Mann, something like that. That was at least 20 years ago.

The second time I encountered it was about 5 years ago on an older fairly abused Squier Strat that I had been asked to refurbish for an outreach school. It came with a 6 point bridge and bent saddles. I got it very close to being bang on but not quite. I used a pair of diagonally cutting pliers (side cutters) and removed 4 or 5 coils from the spring and achieved the required room.

I suspect that when that situation arises it is likely due to an improperly installed bridge or maybe an improperly installed neck, possibly a mistake on cutting the pocket.

When I tell the stories of what I did to those guitars I sometimes get gasps of shock and awe that I would do such a thing. I am of the opinion that if a guitar started life as an entry level axe to start with and it is now beaten up and basically unplayable then I am justified in doing whatever it takes to make it work. It's just not worth spending time or money to do something "perfect" on a junky old beat up guitar that has no resale value. Especially if they're not paying me to fix it.

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Post subject: Re: Intonation Problem
Posted: Sun Aug 25, 2019 1:47 am
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Both of those (cutting the spring, grinding the saddle) are options for a quick fix.
But in my experience, if a Strat seems to have run out of adjustment space on the saddles, the actual problem lies elsewhere.

So I'd agree with st52 with the "first things to check" list.
Check also that the neck plate screws are properly (snug but no hulk force) tightened, and that the neck is properly aligned (low & high E strings roughly on the same distance from the neck edge).
And measure the actual string length (nut to saddle). Comparing that to the nominal scale may give some hints - I've met one misplaced saddle, plus a couple where the bridge was knocked crooked.


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Post subject: Re: Intonation Problem
Posted: Sun Aug 25, 2019 3:13 pm
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If you haven't already, replace the string with a new one. I didn't think that would make much difference, but it does.


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Post subject: Re: Intonation Problem
Posted: Sun Aug 25, 2019 4:12 pm
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To the OP -why don't you just post pics of how the bridge appears from where you see it?
Descriptions are all well and good, but I strongly suspect that you're missing something that a picture would clear up immediately.

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Post subject: Re: Intonation Problem
Posted: Mon Aug 26, 2019 1:36 am
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Best is to learn how to read ;

1- Neck bow ; with $3 spark plug feeler gauge
2- Neck scale ; with tape measure


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Post subject: Re: Intonation Problem
Posted: Mon Aug 26, 2019 2:48 pm
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stratele52, I don't want to step on your toes.
You are not the first person to give this advise for this problem.
It is what is known as common wisdom or common knowledge.
As such, I am not calling you out specifically but I would like to know where this common wisdom comes from.
I want to know if there is something I have been missing all these years.

The reason I ask is because I have done the math in the past and I can attest to the fact the the amount of additional room for intonation adjustment that can be gained from an adjustment of the neck relief of a guitar is so infinitesimally small that for all intents and purposes, it is zero.

I can do the math again if need be and I am more than willing to show my work for inspection if asked but I recall from previous efforts that a neck relief adjustment that results in a 1/8" difference in action (which I think is enormous) creates a difference of less than one half of one thousandth of an inch in longitudinal movement of the nut, relative to the saddle.
I just don't see how that small of a movement can possibly be useful in adjusting the intonation of a Strat.

Am I missing something?

Or is it more likely that sometimes working on the neck results in a slight shifting of the position of the neck within the pocket and that shift is actually responsible for the difference?

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Post subject: Re: Intonation Problem
Posted: Mon Aug 26, 2019 6:44 pm
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I would think string height or action adjustments (saddle height) could help a little on a stubborn string, intonation is usually just a minute adjustment on a good string. I guess thats about the same as starting w/ a good slight concave bow in the neck relief depending on player preference.
I usually only measure the scale length on the high E string, then use a set of calipers to measure(each string gauge) and set each saddle's setback if I am having issues that dont resolve easily.
Personally I've never had to resort to shortening the springs or the saddle itself but would if my methods failed.
Nut slot height can also play a role in loosing room to adjust the saddle.
In the end I tune string to string rather than trying to fiddle w/ intonation to obsessively.


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Post subject: Re: Intonation Problem
Posted: Mon Aug 26, 2019 9:16 pm
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sfceric64 wrote:
Nut slot height can also play a role in loosing room to adjust the saddle.
Again.
I do not understand that.
The height of the string above the frets does affect the length of the string.

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Post subject: Re: Intonation Problem
Posted: Tue Aug 27, 2019 12:38 am
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BMW-KTM wrote:
sfceric64 wrote:
Nut slot height can also play a role in loosing room to adjust the saddle.
Again.
I do not understand that.
The height of the string above the frets does affect the length of the string.


100 % right.
Ii is funny what we can read on the web. Look sferic64 did not know at 100% how guitar work to say that :lol:

With all we wrote, OP Manieto know what to check and what to do to fix intonation. He just need to work.


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Post subject: Re: Intonation Problem
Posted: Tue Aug 27, 2019 12:54 am
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As suggested earlier check the string and try another.
Also see if the note changes the harder you press the string onto the fretboard. It really only requires a light touch. :D


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Post subject: Re: Intonation Problem
Posted: Tue Aug 27, 2019 2:33 am
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There's (at least) one thing not mentioned yet - maybe the most simple & obvious. How high is the trem plate?


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Post subject: Re: Intonation Problem
Posted: Tue Aug 27, 2019 2:39 am
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jmattis wrote:
There's (at least) one thing not mentioned yet - maybe the most simple & obvious. How high is the trem plate?


He shoots...he scores. :-)

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Post subject: Re: Intonation Problem
Posted: Tue Aug 27, 2019 6:34 am
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jimmy_james wrote:
As suggested earlier check the string and try another.
Also see if the note changes the harder you press the string onto the fretboard. It really only requires a light touch. :D


It can't be the strings.


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