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Post subject: MIM strat vs Squier 60's vibe series
Posted: Thu Aug 21, 2008 12:22 pm
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Okay, folks, I'm about narrowed down to a MIM Strat or a Squier 60's "classic Vibe" series. Comparing the two, they both have Alder bodies. The Squier has alnico V pups, while the MIM has 3 ceramic magnet pups. Both have 21 medium jumbo frets, the 6 pt vintage style bridge, 9." r neck, 25.5 scale, same nut width. The tuners are "vintage style" on the squier and the modern style on the strat. I have vintage on my musicmaster and Schallers on my strat copy. Both are perfectly functional, with the edge going to the schallers in smoothness. Of course they are only 20 yrs old vs 40 for the MM's tuners.

The way I see it, the Squier is pretty comparable to the MIM. Not exactly, but close. The squier would be a little less quality, athough I am not sure. I fully understand that the squier lacks the prestige of the FEnder, and that some corners have to be cut, but the Squier seems like a pretty good deal to me for $100 less.

Give me some input. I figure the frets will not be as buttery on the SQ. I've already felt that on the ones I've played. I'm not going to be playing outside the house for the foreseeable future with it.

My dealer can't get much of anything I want til late spetember. And if he "special orders" it and I don;t like it, I still have to buy it. so it's either an ebay or online store purchase. Either way, I think I'm setting my limit to about $300. Musician;s Friend, love em or hate em, at least has a return policy.

Resale nod goes to the Fender of course.

What do you folks think? And let's keep it as objective as possible. I know emotion plays a part. I would especially like to hear from folks who own both ot have owned both.

Thanks
Randy


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Posted: Thu Aug 21, 2008 2:20 pm
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It sounds like you've done some good homework. Personally, I would go for the MIM, but as you say, that is partially based on emotion. I think that with the MIM you will get a little better quality wood (even though it is the same type) and a little better neck. You will also probably get a better bridge, which could make a big difference. One of the places where they save money is in the setup, so with either of these guitars you will see a big difference if you have it professionally set up first thing.

I learned on a Squier and looking back I think it was more or less a piece of junk. I think the stuff they are building now, though is a little better.

To make a long story long, if you can afford the extra for the MIM, I think you will be glad you spent it, but if you can't, you shouldn't feel bad about buying the squier to hold you over until you are making the big bucks. :wink:

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Post subject: Re: MIM strat vs Squier 60's vibe series
Posted: Thu Aug 21, 2008 2:28 pm
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66musicmaster wrote:
Okay, folks, I'm about narrowed down to a MIM Strat or a Squier 60's "classic Vibe" series. Comparing the two, they both have Alder bodies. The Squier has alnico V pups, while the MIM has 3 ceramic magnet pups. Both have 21 medium jumbo frets, the 6 pt vintage style bridge, 9." r neck, 25.5 scale, same nut width. The tuners are "vintage style" on the squier and the modern style on the strat. I have vintage on my musicmaster and Schallers on my strat copy. Both are perfectly functional, with the edge going to the schallers in smoothness. Of course they are only 20 yrs old vs 40 for the MM's tuners.

The way I see it, the Squier is pretty comparable to the MIM. Not exactly, but close. The squier would be a little less quality, athough I am not sure. I fully understand that the squier lacks the prestige of the FEnder, and that some corners have to be cut, but the Squier seems like a pretty good deal to me for $100 less.

Give me some input. I figure the frets will not be as buttery on the SQ. I've already felt that on the ones I've played. I'm not going to be playing outside the house for the foreseeable future with it.

My dealer can't get much of anything I want til late spetember. And if he "special orders" it and I don;t like it, I still have to buy it. so it's either an ebay or online store purchase. Either way, I think I'm setting my limit to about $300. Musician;s Friend, love em or hate em, at least has a return policy.

Resale nod goes to the Fender of course.

What do you folks think? And let's keep it as objective as possible. I know emotion plays a part. I would especially like to hear from folks who own both ot have owned both.

Thanks
Randy


My vote is for the MIM. I've bought three guitars on Musician's Friend, and I've been very satisfied each time. It was the one way I could get exactly what I wanted, and not settle for only what was in stock in a local store. Others have had complaints, but I've had nothing but a good experience. I've bought three guitars, an amp, and numerous accessories, and all have been a good experience.

And a plus........they're located out of my state, so every purchase has been tax free for me.

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Posted: Thu Aug 21, 2008 4:04 pm
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Tax free is good.

We can afford the MIM. That's not a problem really. That is as much as I want to spend though. I'd RATHER spend a little less and pick up some accessories to go with the new guitar. I feel like the Squier would serve my needs fine. I'm not looking for a band, or entertaining any thoughts of being a star. Just a guy playing guitar at home with his kids (who might be stars some day).

The Squiers I did play were nice. The DEluxe was incredible. I thought it felt better than the MIMs, as far as it felt like a guitar that had been played and "broken in". IT was silky smooth. The others felt like they needed a more love than the MIMs. THe maple fretboard MIMs were nothing particularly special to me. I did not like the way the strings felt on any of them really. Would like to see if Some Slinkies would help.

Still studyin about it....
Randy


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Posted: Thu Aug 21, 2008 4:48 pm
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What are you kidding me? Squire is junk compared to Mexican Strat. At least a Mexcian Strat is a Strat and sounds like a Strat. A Squire doesn't even sound like a Strat at all.

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Posted: Thu Aug 21, 2008 5:14 pm
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I think im going to have to go with the MIM on this one, this is just my personal experience, but every squier I've held has been junk, don't get me wrong, alot of squiers might be really good. It's just that holding a Fender has been a huge difference to me over a squire(I don't know if it's the label or what), and I also think you should go for a MIM for the quality and sound.


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Posted: Thu Aug 21, 2008 5:20 pm
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abombaci wrote:
What are you kidding me? Squire is junk compared to Mexican Strat. At least a Mexcian Strat is a Strat and sounds like a Strat. A Squire doesn't even sound like a Strat at all.


I love and own a MIM Strat, (and MIA Strats) but test drive one of the Vintage Modified Squiers and you might be surprised. :?:

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Posted: Thu Aug 21, 2008 6:22 pm
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abombaci wrote:
What are you kidding me? Squire is junk compared to Mexican Strat. At least a Mexcian Strat is a Strat and sounds like a Strat. A Squire doesn't even sound like a Strat at all.


Thanks for the OBJECTIVE opinion. Slow down and learn to spell if you want your opinion to hold more weight. Also use better arguments than you did, if you want other adults to take you seriously.

This is a great place to pick up useful information, as the 'net can often be. But then, once in a while, you find crap like this. If you can't add something of value to this discussion, please stay out of it.

But thanks for ringing in. Does this forum have an "ignore" feature like most do?

Randy


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Posted: Thu Aug 21, 2008 6:38 pm
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Quote:
I love and own a MIM Strat, (and MIA Strats) but test drive one of the Vintage Modified Squiers and you might be surprised. :?:


That's my point. I did test drive a vintage mod, as well as a Squier Strat Deluxe. The Deluxe gives the maple FB MIMS a run for their money. Plays every bit as good as the MIMs I played at the same place. But I am looking for a rosewood FB now, so I'll have both and the Deluxe Squier isn't offered in rosewood.

I'm not sure what qualifies something to feel like junk. Have you guys ever played a "Hondo"? THAT feels like Junk to me. Some of those old 80's rip offs were absolutely horrible. What you guys are saying is junk would have been top of the heap 25 years ago.

When a Squier feels that bad, I'll gladly change my opinion. But that said, even a MIM feels pretty bad compared to the playability of my old musicmaster. Just that the MMII doesn't have a bridge pup.

My whole reason for this thread is to find out if there is any tangible evidence that makes one better than the other, other than the name on the headstock.

Even "strat sound" is subjective. Is that SRV's sound? JLV's? Clapton's? Beck? Will the real "strat sound" please stand up?

5 bonus points if you are old enough to remember that TV show.

Thanks for the replies.
Randy


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Posted: Thu Aug 21, 2008 8:41 pm
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If you can't actually play the guitars before the purchase, the MIM is the safer bet for sure. The MIMs are great for the money.

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Posted: Thu Aug 21, 2008 8:59 pm
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Sounds like you are trying to sell yourself on the squier, so why ask others opinions and then critize them? Get the squier thats what you wanted to hear anyway. Does not matter to us. Wish you luck and enjoy! :)


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Posted: Fri Aug 22, 2008 6:34 am
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I am not necessarily sold on the Squier. Nor am I sold on the MIM standard. I don't NEED a more expensive version, although I see the value in them. Want is a whole other issue.... :)

That's why I was asking for objective opinions. Even the cheaper affinity series squier I played in a pawn shop was much better than the sheap stuff in the 80's, when I last bought a guitar.

I would like to have solid reasoning why NOT to buy a Squier. If there is something there that I have overlooked or some crazy reason, then I was hoping the collective knowledge here could point it out.

But for my purposes, I see that the Squier has a lot of the same equipment as the MIM. Just doesn't say "fender" on it and it's made in some third world country that isn't on the north american continent. I posted here, knowing I would get a strong contingent telling me to get the MIM, because it is the Fender strat section.

I am still looking for objectiveness, if there is any to be had.

Thanks
Randy


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Posted: Fri Aug 22, 2008 7:42 am
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66musicmaster wrote:
I am still looking for objectiveness, if there is any to be had.

Okay, here is your objectivity:

1) Body: Both are alder. However, I'd bet dollars to doughnuts that the Strat is going to get a higher quality wood-set, made with fewer pieces.
2) Neck: The neck on the MIM will be more finished and higher quality from a workmanship standpoint. The MIM Strat necks are actually quite nice.
3) Tuners: The Strat comes with nice tuners. The Squier's tuners will be lesser than the Strat. Don't confuse the Squier tuners with the Vintage ones sold on Strats (they are not the same). If you plan to upgrade tuners for the Squier, then just buy the MIM Strat now.
4) Tailpiece: I bet these are the same. However, the MIM Strat went to a larger tremblock in 06+. If it is the same tailpiece and the Squier has the older small tremblock (which I bet is the case) you can upgrade a small tremblock for the bigger one (easy and cheap).
5) Pups: Probably a wash. The Squier has alnico-5's and the MIM has the ceramics. The Strats are quite good. The Squires are an upgrade for this model, so they are likely pretty decent, too (but different). This comes down to personal preference. You have to play them.

So... what are you thinking you will do?

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Post subject: 66 music master
Posted: Fri Aug 22, 2008 7:59 am
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sounds to me like youve already made your mind up.
my best friend has a squier standard, played it on his virtube amp, and it sounds near the quality of my am strat. hes had that thing for about 11 yrs now. works great.

i researched the 60s vibe squier, and think is a great choice.
my thought is, you can play hard with it, experiment on it like doing set ups, changing pickups and such.
and it wont hurt as much as an mim or am.
however, this guitar has alnico 5 pickups.
same as the vintage noiseless, and cs 69's.

a + is that youve played it already, and liked it.
my 2 cents


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Posted: Fri Aug 22, 2008 8:18 am
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You want "objective" observations? Get ready...

A friend brought his son round the other week with his Squier Standard Strat, for some advice and, de facto, a free lesson or two. We sat around swapping guitars and I got a longer play on a Squier than I've had for a while.

Important to note that, at the price, that guitar was a knock-down deal. When you think about the minority part of the purchase price that actually goes on the manufacturing then it is amazing what you get for your money, even at Far Eastern labor costs. I agree entirely with your observation that the cheapest Squier today would match up well against a significantly higher spec instrument from 20 years ago, in many areas, at any rate.

However, there was no doubt about the limitations that the build budget placed upon the thing. The back of the neck was not perfectly smooth, longitudinally. The fret ends, as you have observed, were not comfortable. The nut worked all right for height but was crudely shaped. Cosmetically, the pickguard was cheap and also crudely cut, and as usual didn't have standard screwhole arangement, so you couldn't straightforwardly swap in a nicer one. (Not insurmountable, but another mark in the cons list.)

I don't know what the pickups were, but they were uncharming, to say the least. Harsh and brittle. The five-way switch was cheap and not smooth: I foresee problems to come with that. Ditto, the pots: already somewhat scratchy.

01GTeibach had it exactly right about the tuners and bridge. The tuners were unfriendly in their action, and the one nearest the nut was too close to the point on the peghead where the wood curves upwards towards the fingerboard, so the washer on the front was raised slightly on one side and didn't sit flush to the timber. This Squier seemed to be about a year old: already the chrome was getting a touch flakey on the saddles around the top two strings, which presages problems to come. And the movement of the trem just wasn't quite as smooth as we'd like.

Now all of this is extreme nit-picking. I say again that for the money that lad's guitar was a no-brainer deal. But the time was coming soon when he'd start being able to notice the things I'm talking about - and for sure you are a fine enough player that those issues will bother you from the out.

I certainly have not played my way across numerous Squiers, and I have not A/B'd a Deluxe Squier against a Mexican Strat. I have no doubt at all that you can find good examples of the former and poor ones of the latter. But on average we all know that the kinds of issues I found with that boy's guitar are simply better with Mexican guitars than Far Eastern Squiers. On average.

You keep saying that, up to your budget ceiling, the price is not the issue. So go with the MIM, if you can find a finish and individual instrument that you like.

But by the sound of it, you have good enough ears and hands that if you find an above average Squier you can be self-confident enough to go with that, too!

Best of luck - C


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