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Post subject: Re: Drop-in stoptail or hardtail unit to replace 2 point tre
Posted: Sun Jul 21, 2019 12:12 pm
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Start by making the pickup routing into a swimming pool rout, and carefully extend an inch or two below that.
It would be easier to buy a chambered body https://www.warmoth.com/Showcase/Showca ... &i=ps14195

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Post subject: Re: Drop-in stoptail or hardtail unit to replace 2 point tre
Posted: Mon Jul 22, 2019 12:20 am
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CB91710 wrote:
^^^^ This.
Far more to be gained (lost?) with wood removal than the unnoticeable fraction of a pound from changing the tuners and eliminating the tremolo block.
Not a reversible mod, but there's plenty of area to work with if it has a conventional Strat pickguard, and the relief is in the right place in the body to avoid creating a neck-heavy condition.


And if the OP changes his mind there's no way on earth to unfuck that mess.

Why not just buy an ES335 and be done with it?

Arjay

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Post subject: Re: Drop-in stoptail or hardtail unit to replace 2 point tre
Posted: Mon Jul 22, 2019 7:49 am
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Disgusting.


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Post subject: Re: Drop-in stoptail or hardtail unit to replace 2 point tre
Posted: Mon Jul 22, 2019 6:02 pm
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Retroverbial wrote:
CB91710 wrote:
^^^^ This.
Far more to be gained (lost?) with wood removal than the unnoticeable fraction of a pound from changing the tuners and eliminating the tremolo block.
Not a reversible mod, but there's plenty of area to work with if it has a conventional Strat pickguard, and the relief is in the right place in the body to avoid creating a neck-heavy condition.


And if the OP changes his mind there's no way on earth to unfuck that mess.

Why not just buy an ES335 and be done with it?

Arjay

I agree and would certainly not do it myself, but OP seems dead set on keeping his mahogany body.

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Post subject: Re: Drop-in stoptail or hardtail unit to replace 2 point tre
Posted: Tue Jul 23, 2019 9:24 am
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The body I linked to from Warmoth is (a) mahogany (b) chambered.
It might well have a flame maple cap, but it's going to be a very well made lightweight body.
If the OP requires a mahogany top that can custom ordered if they haven't already got one in stock.
That would give the OP the option of going hardtail if they wanted to further keep the weight down.

I know what I'd be inclined to do.

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Post subject: Re: Drop-in stoptail or hardtail unit to replace 2 point tre
Posted: Tue Jul 23, 2019 7:23 pm
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I don't know that a conventional hardtail would save any weight, at least not without additional chambering.
The Strat trem requires removing a fair amount of wood.

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Post subject: Re: Drop-in stoptail or hardtail unit to replace 2 point tre
Posted: Sun Jul 28, 2019 11:19 am
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So here's an update on my research into my options.

I brought home two used alder body Strats to evaluate within the 30 day return window. One is a Year 2005 US Professional series Blacktop HH Strat, and the other is a Year 2011 Mexican Blacktop HH Strat. Both have a 5 way superswitch but each has different pickup witing combinations.

Both of these two alder strats measured in at over 8 lbs. Both at 8.2lbs. So per my experience, i am not finding alder strats to be substantially lighter than mahogany ones.

But there has been at least some other upsides from this experiment: i prefer the tones i am getting from the Mexican HH strat over my mahogany strat, so i will keep the Mexican HH strat and sell off the mahogany. With the Mexican one having just a $400 market value compared to the much pricier Mahogany strat, i will breathe easier making some of the weight relief mods to it vs the Mahogany strat. And obviously i will get some cash back in my pocket after selling off the higher valued Mahogany strat.

Instead of trying to replace the trem unit with a hardtail piece, in my research i found an alternative that is much cleaner: replace just the weighty metal block of the trem with a wood block. A guy did this using a piece of wood he fashioned by hand and posted about it on Jazz Guitar forum - he said the impact on the sound was negligible (i'm paraphrasing). Here is the link to his post: https://www.jazzguitar.be/forum/builders-bench/68464-hardtailing-stratocaster.html and obviously he felt it yielded more weight relief than "just a few grams" like some people have claimed in their replies to this thread. Here is a pic of what the mod looked like after it was done: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1-DnW_bhGeNBwgOZI1Nz2JrPgWz7HRIJS/view?usp=drivesdk

Can't be too crazy of an idea, cuz Hipshot offers a wood block like this for sale: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1-DpooB6bdHsjoaBUcVqx9zPo7iqY6Z3C/view?usp=drivesdk


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Post subject: Re: Drop-in stoptail or hardtail unit to replace 2 point tre
Posted: Sun Jul 28, 2019 11:50 pm
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Only in regard of my own post on page 1:

I wouldn't call either idea (replacing the trem block with a wooden one or filling the trem routing with wood) crazy, but I do think they're rare and exceptional.

What I was/am saying is, I doubt if that kind of a weight relief will help with the back pain. I don't mean to limit your experimenting in any way, that's just my prediction.

But in regard to what many players say about trem block effects on sound (e.g. near magic results from replacing zinc with steel), I'll be looking forward to your follow-up on that part.


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Post subject: Re: Drop-in stoptail or hardtail unit to replace 2 point tre
Posted: Mon Jul 29, 2019 8:59 am
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Quote:
Both of these two alder strats measured in at over 8 lbs. Both at 8.2lbs. So per my experience, i am not finding alder strats to be substantially lighter than mahogany ones.
But there are light alder Strats and heavy alder Strats. No hard and fast rule.

Looks like you're sorting it out for yourself, but if you're not happy I'd still advise looking for a 7lb (or lighter) example. There are plenty around.

Cheers - Peter.


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Post subject: Re: Drop-in stoptail or hardtail unit to replace 2 point tre
Posted: Mon Jul 29, 2019 11:10 am
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Peter S wrote:
....But there are light alder Strats and heavy alder Strats. No hard and fast rule.

Looks like you're sorting it out for yourself, but if you're not happy I'd still advise looking for a 7lb (or lighter) example. There are plenty around.

Cheers - Peter.


I agree entirely ... I like them as light as they come. And you aren't really getting into "Light" until you go below 7lb which are far from unusual.

80's MiA's might be worth a look. Perhaps as a knee jerk reaction to the 70's boat anchors some of these seem to be very light, and the swimming pool PUP rout didn't hurt to remove weight.

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Post subject: Re: Drop-in stoptail or hardtail unit to replace 2 point tre
Posted: Mon Jul 29, 2019 11:49 am
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floyds_chili wrote:
So here's an update on my research into my options.

I brought home two used alder body Strats to evaluate within the 30 day return window. One is a Year 2005 US Professional series Blacktop HH Strat, and the other is a Year 2011 Mexican Blacktop HH Strat. Both have a 5 way superswitch but each has different pickup witing combinations.

Both of these two alder strats measured in at over 8 lbs. Both at 8.2lbs. So per my experience, i am not finding alder strats to be substantially lighter than mahogany ones.

But there has been at least some other upsides from this experiment: i prefer the tones i am getting from the Mexican HH strat over my mahogany strat, so i will keep the Mexican HH strat and sell off the mahogany. With the Mexican one having just a $400 market value compared to the much pricier Mahogany strat, i will breathe easier making some of the weight relief mods to it vs the Mahogany strat. And obviously i will get some cash back in my pocket after selling off the higher valued Mahogany strat.

Instead of trying to replace the trem unit with a hardtail piece, in my research i found an alternative that is much cleaner: replace just the weighty metal block of the trem with a wood block. A guy did this using a piece of wood he fashioned by hand and posted about it on Jazz Guitar forum - he said the impact on the sound was negligible (i'm paraphrasing). Here is the link to his post: https://www.jazzguitar.be/forum/builders-bench/68464-hardtailing-stratocaster.html and obviously he felt it yielded more weight relief than "just a few grams" like some people have claimed in their replies to this thread. Here is a pic of what the mod looked like after it was done: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1-DnW_bhGeNBwgOZI1Nz2JrPgWz7HRIJS/view?usp=drivesdk

Can't be too crazy of an idea, cuz Hipshot offers a wood block like this for sale: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1-DpooB6bdHsjoaBUcVqx9zPo7iqY6Z3C/view?usp=drivesdk


I just heard back from one of the retailers that carries the Hipshot wood trem block, and they told me that its weight is 3.2 oz. Compared to 11.5 for the OEM trem block.

That's over half a pound right there!

And i imagine you could reduce that 3.2 oz by at least half if you cut off and remove the piece that fills the spring cavity, since it seems optional based on the thread at the Jazz Guitar forum i refered to earlier where the guy replaced the OEM trem block with his own DIY wood block.


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Post subject: Re: Drop-in stoptail or hardtail unit to replace 2 point tre
Posted: Mon Jul 29, 2019 12:16 pm
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Peter S wrote:
Quote:
Both of these two alder strats measured in at over 8 lbs. Both at 8.2lbs. So per my experience, i am not finding alder strats to be substantially lighter than mahogany ones.
But there are light alder Strats and heavy alder Strats. No hard and fast rule.

Looks like you're sorting it out for yourself, but if you're not happy I'd still advise looking for a 7lb (or lighter) example. There are plenty around.

Cheers - Peter.


I don't know of a practical and efficient way to shop online for a used guitar by a weight target, other than messaging and/or calling each potential seller and hoping they are willing to take a measurement for you - and that their measurement is actually accurate or their answer is not simply didn't-weight-it-BS.

For example, the out-of-state guitar center that i recently ordered one of these 2 used alder strats from told me it weighed in at 7lbs when i specifically asked for a weight measurement. Then i receive it by shipment a few days later and it weighs in at 8.2 lbs. And guitar center does not return to you the cost of the shipping expenses when you make your return at the store. So it gets to be pricey pretty quickly the more guitars you have shipped out to you.

Additionally, you can chase guitars by weight spec and then not find out until you've paid for it to be shipped to you, that you don't like the feel of the neck profile, or the pickups, etc. You could be on an endless search. Sure pickups can be swapped out, but then you are just swapping that expense for the expense of time and materials to weight relief mod a guitar that you already own and like the playability of.


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Post subject: Re: Drop-in stoptail or hardtail unit to replace 2 point tre
Posted: Tue Jul 30, 2019 1:07 am
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Or you could go my new favourite route which is just to buy the body. Bodies almost always note the weight in the details.

Such is the joy of Strats, you can keep your favourite neck, PUPs etc, and get exactly the guitar you want.

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Post subject: Re: Drop-in stoptail or hardtail unit to replace 2 point tre
Posted: Tue Jul 30, 2019 5:42 am
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Quote:
I don't know of a practical and efficient way to shop online for a used guitar
Well no, online isn't ideal, obviously - from any angle!

I'm surprised that in the US you don't have reasonably-local Fender dealers (or other guitar shops). Even in England, I could name you 3 or 4 within 50 miles that would probably stock some 20-30 Strats in total at any one time.

Cheers - Peter.


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Post subject: Re: Drop-in stoptail or hardtail unit to replace 2 point tre
Posted: Tue Jul 30, 2019 7:04 am
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Peter S wrote:
Quote:
I don't know of a practical and efficient way to shop online for a used guitar
Well no, online isn't ideal, obviously - from any angle!

I'm surprised that in the US you don't have reasonably-local Fender dealers (or other guitar shops). Even in England, I could name you 3 or 4 within 50 miles that would probably stock some 20-30 Strats in total at any one time.

Cheers - Peter.


That could be accurate if the goal was to buy a "new" guitar. I always try to buy "used" from a cost perspective. So, naturally the # of in-stock used strats that meet my specs within a 50 mile radius drops off pretty dramatically when that factor is considered. In fact, when i ordered those two alder body strats last week, that was after having already used the Guitar Center website filter tools to first try and find some used strats within driving distance that met my specs. There were none, hence i had to move fwd with ordering those 2 from out of state stores.


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