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Post subject: Drop-in stoptail or hardtail unit to replace 2 point trem
Posted: Thu Jul 18, 2019 7:48 am
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My strat is one of the mahogany-bodied ones, so it is heavier to start with compared to a typical Strat. Because of certain issues/injuries i have with my back, i would like to reduce the weight of the guitar. Since i already don't use the trem, i see removal of the trem (which is a Fender Deluxe 2 point type) and its block as good candidates for weight reduction. But i would like to try and avoid permanently altering the guitar, like having to drill new holes for the posts of a stop tail or the screws for a hardtail unit.

Is there a product out there that is a drop-in replacement stoptail (or 2nd preference: hardtail type) bridge for a Fender Deluxe 2 point tremolo?

FYI: another weight reduction candidate is the tuners - i might additiinally replace the stock tuners with liteweight tuners. So i would also welcome suggestions for liteweight tuners. I have used Gotoh Stealth tuners previously but i didn't like that you have to come up with some material on your own to fill the empty tuner hole shaft space because the Gotoh Stealth tuners have a much smaller diameter than normal tuners and Goto does not provide anything to fill that empty space.


Last edited by floyds_chili on Thu Jul 18, 2019 8:47 am, edited 2 times in total.

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Post subject: Re: Drop-in stoptail or stringthru unit to replace 2 point t
Posted: Thu Jul 18, 2019 8:43 am
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In practical terms, it would be more economically efficient to sell your existing Strat and buy a hardtail outright. The Robert Cray signature guitars are still plentiful, both new and in the secondary market. That instrument gives you an alder body, the hardtail bridge, lightweight (vintage style) tuners, and a 9½" radius fretboard. Upgrade if necessary with the pickups of your choice. Mine weighs about eight points on the dot.

Arjay

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Post subject: Re: Drop-in stoptail or stringthru unit to replace 2 point t
Posted: Thu Jul 18, 2019 8:49 am
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Retroverbial wrote:
In practical terms, it would be more economically efficient to sell your existing Strat and buy a hardtail outright. The Robert Cray signature guitars are still plentiful, both new and in the secondary market. That instrument gives you an alder body, the hardtail bridge, lightweight (vintage style) tuners, and a 9½" radius fretboard. Upgrade if necessary with the pickups of your choice. Mine weighs about eight points on the dot.

Arjay


That is true economically. However, i chose the mahogany-bodied strat (before my back injuries occured) because i prefer the tone of it over a alder or ash strat.


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Post subject: Re: Drop-in stoptail or hardtail unit to replace 2 point tre
Posted: Thu Jul 18, 2019 9:08 am
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You'll save only a couple of grams per tuner following their replacement by lightweight versions and perhaps a few ounces by dumping the trem bridge and block.

Enjoy the boat anchor.

Arjay

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Post subject: Re: Drop-in stoptail or hardtail unit to replace 2 point tre
Posted: Thu Jul 18, 2019 10:02 am
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Retroverbial wrote:
You'll save only a couple of grams per tuner following their replacement by lightweight versions and perhaps a few ounces by dumping the trem bridge and block.

Enjoy the boat anchor.

Arjay


Hmmm, i don't know about that whole "only a couple grams" bit... actual weights i am finding listed online for these products are telling a different story. I am seeing greater than 3/4s of a pound of potential weight reduction. I consider that significant.


1. Fender locking tuners vs Gotoh Stealth tuners

10.4 oz (0.65 lbs) vs 4.16 oz (0.26 lbs) = 0.39 lbs reduction



2. 2 Point Tremolo * vs hardtail bridge

11.53 oz (0.72 lbs) vs 3.52 oz (0.22lbs) = 0.5 lbs reduction

Total potential weight reduction = 0.89 lbs

* 2 point tremolo weight based on a Schaller 2 point tremolo part number 13050137. I haven't been able to find a weight listed for a Fender Deluxe 2 point trem yet.


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Post subject: Re: Drop-in stoptail or hardtail unit to replace 2 point tre
Posted: Thu Jul 18, 2019 11:34 am
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I don't recall ever seeing a trem-to-hardtail conversion bridge which would just drop in without any permanent modding.

And I agree that your back won't notice the 0.403697209 kilograms calculatory weight loss. Have you tested totally different playing positions and/or a real wide strap?


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Post subject: Re: Drop-in stoptail or hardtail unit to replace 2 point tre
Posted: Thu Jul 18, 2019 11:41 am
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You lose your time and money. Your mod will not help your back

Only thing will help is to play sit on a chair or play acoustic guitar


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Post subject: Re: Drop-in stoptail or hardtail unit to replace 2 point tre
Posted: Thu Jul 18, 2019 3:02 pm
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floyds_chili wrote:
Retroverbial wrote:
You'll save only a couple of grams per tuner following their replacement by lightweight versions and perhaps a few ounces by dumping the trem bridge and block.

Enjoy the boat anchor.

Arjay


Hmmm, i don't know about that whole "only a couple grams" bit... actual weights i am finding listed online for these products are telling a different story. I am seeing greater than 3/4s of a pound of potential weight reduction. I consider that significant.


1. Fender locking tuners vs Gotoh Stealth tuners

10.4 oz (0.65 lbs) vs 4.16 oz (0.26 lbs) = 0.39 lbs reduction



2. 2 Point Tremolo * vs hardtail bridge

11.53 oz (0.72 lbs) vs 3.52 oz (0.22lbs) = 0.5 lbs reduction

Total potential weight reduction = 0.89 lbs

* 2 point tremolo weight based on a Schaller 2 point tremolo part number 13050137. I haven't been able to find a weight listed for a Fender Deluxe 2 point trem yet.


Was just able to find out the weight of the Fender Deluxe 2 Point Trem: it's 11.6 ounces. So not far off at all from the Schaller that i referenced above.

Also, i just weighed my mahogany strat: it's 8.4 lbs. That is about the same or even less than what i saw Sweetwater currently listing for 2 of their in-stock Fender American Professional HSS strats with alder bodies (8.68 lbs and 8.19lbs).


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Post subject: Re: Drop-in stoptail or hardtail unit to replace 2 point tre
Posted: Thu Jul 18, 2019 4:06 pm
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jmattis wrote:
I don't recall ever seeing a trem-to-hardtail conversion bridge which would just drop in without any permanent modding...


I agree. A hardtail is a completely different animal all round.

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Post subject: Re: Drop-in stoptail or hardtail unit to replace 2 point tre
Posted: Thu Jul 18, 2019 4:09 pm
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My advise is ... don't modify your guitar.
You will spend more money than you anticipated and you will not be satisfied with the results.
Get a different guitar.
Mahogany, schmahogany.
Tweak your settings on an alder guitar and enjoy.
Get one stained the colour of mahogany if it pleases you.
Any perceived drop in sustain that you think you notice from the absence of a mahogany body will be more than recovered by the hard tail.
Don't twist yourself into contortions over this.
No good will come of it.

PLUS ...

Like they just said above, I don't think there is any such hardware to make that conversion.

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Post subject: Re: Drop-in stoptail or hardtail unit to replace 2 point tre
Posted: Fri Jul 19, 2019 8:42 am
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Agree with the view that the weight reduction you want won't happen by modding. I'd sell it and try/buy a Performer or (older) Special. Mine is very light at 7lbs dead, and examples I've picked up in stores have also been lighter than many of the more expensive US models.

Furthermore, there was a white Special body (only) on Fleabay recently; the bloke said he was selling it because it was too light and he preferred heavier Strats.

Obviously I don't know if that model has a lighter body by design (seems unlikely) - I just know I love mine! If your Strat weighs 8.4lb, that'd be far too heavy for me!

Trem-wise, if you don't want it, just block it or tighten the springs up.

I should point out that the Performers / Specials do have jumbos, which of course you may not want (I had mine refretted). But there are certainly 7lb Strats out there, or even lighter. You just need to have a look around the stores - and take some scales with you!

Cheers - Peter.


Last edited by Peter S on Sat Jul 20, 2019 4:41 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Post subject: Re: Drop-in stoptail or hardtail unit to replace 2 point tre
Posted: Fri Jul 19, 2019 8:56 am
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You won't save any significant wieght with a trem block and tuners.

Only a few grams, .

If you can feel 12g you're pretty sensitive.

My Les Paul is 9.0lbs , my Strat is 8.33lbs, very little difference slung over my shoulder

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Post subject: Re: Drop-in stoptail or hardtail unit to replace 2 point tre
Posted: Fri Jul 19, 2019 5:56 pm
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Eracer_Team wrote:
My Les Paul is 9.0lbs

You got a light one.
My 2019 '60s is dead on 10.0 (no weight relief)

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Post subject: Re: Drop-in stoptail or hardtail unit to replace 2 point tre
Posted: Sat Jul 20, 2019 12:04 pm
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A bit of weight relief à la Smuggler's Tele might make things more manageable.

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Post subject: Re: Drop-in stoptail or hardtail unit to replace 2 point tre
Posted: Sun Jul 21, 2019 10:39 am
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^^^^ This.
Far more to be gained (lost?) with wood removal than the unnoticeable fraction of a pound from changing the tuners and eliminating the tremolo block.
Not a reversible mod, but there's plenty of area to work with if it has a conventional Strat pickguard, and the relief is in the right place in the body to avoid creating a neck-heavy condition.

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