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Post subject: Weird Overtones on G String
Posted: Tue Apr 02, 2019 12:52 pm
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I have a new Classic Player '60s Stratocaster that's exhibiting a strange problem. Everything sounds fine when playing through a clean amp, but once I play with any overdrive or distortion I get weird overtones from the G string (and to some extent the low E string). The only thing that makes sense is the pickups, but why does it only really surface itself with some dirt in the signal path? It's what I imagine you get when your pickups are too high, though these are not, they are almost as low as they can go. However I do notice the middle 2 poles on all 3 pickups are way higher than the others. Anyone else ever have this problem, specifically where it doesn't necessarily present itself when playing clean, and does it indeed sound like an issue with the pickups?


Last edited by fogwolf on Mon Apr 08, 2019 3:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Post subject: Re: Weird Overtones on G String
Posted: Mon Apr 08, 2019 7:29 am
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fogwolf wrote:
I have a new Classic Player '60s Stratocaster that's exhibiting a strange problem. Everything sounds fine when playing through a clean amp, but once I play with any overdrive or distortion I get weird overtones from the G string (and to some extent the low E string). The only thing that makes sense is the pickups, but why does it only really surface itself with some dirt in the signal path? It's what I imagine you get when your pickups are too high, though these are not, they are almost as low as they can go. However I do notice the middle 2 poles on all 3 pickups are way higher than the others. Anyone else ever have this problem, specifically where it doesn't necessarily present itself when playing clean, and does it indeed sound like the pickups?


Welcome to Stratocasters lol. Let me caveat that I'm no expert but I'll tell you some of the challenges I have had.

The first strat I had gave me fits like that with strange noises jumping out of nowhere depending on the notes I was playing. Some of it was just the sound of the pickups and the guitar itself. They are bright by nature and I found I couldn't just plug in and use the same amp settings I was using with a humbucker guitar. Certain frequencies just seemed to go crazy when overdriven. Adjusting the EQ and backing off the treble and presence cleared most of that up.

Another problem in my case was I actually had a slight string buzz on the G that just didn't present itself without adding some drive. A quick saddle adjustment fixed that.

Overdrive produces those harmonic overtones that can bring that stuff to light. You should also check the nut and saddles. Sometimes some gunk in the nut slot or a misaligned saddle can cause a buzz or flat sounding string. Lastly and less likely you could be getting some sympathetic harmonics from your trem springs. Open the back and dampen them by hand to see if you still the sound.

Hopefully some of the more seasoned owners can chime in for you.

Cheers,

AJ

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Post subject: Re: Weird Overtones on G String
Posted: Mon Apr 08, 2019 8:04 am
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The pole-piece stagger on the pickups appears to be the same as you'd get on a vintage instrument, yet the fingerboard radius is 12", not the 7.25" of a vintage instrument.
Which means that the centre poles are closer to the strings than they would be with a vintage model.

You could well be experiencing Stratitis https://www.seymourduncan.com/blog/swd- ... strat-itis

The cure is to adjust the pickups so that they're farther from the strings.

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Post subject: Re: Weird Overtones on G String
Posted: Mon Apr 08, 2019 9:42 am
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stratmangler wrote:
The cure is to adjust the pickups so that they're farther from the strings.

......Or replace them with pickups that feature non-staggered pole pieces.

Arjay

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Post subject: Re: Weird Overtones on G String
Posted: Mon Apr 08, 2019 10:18 am
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Retroverbial wrote:
......Or replace them with pickups that feature non-staggered pole pieces.

Arjay

Absolutely!
I went with suggesting the cheap option.
:D

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Post subject: Re: Weird Overtones on G String
Posted: Mon Apr 08, 2019 12:01 pm
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Do you have a G/D string tree? If not, try simulating one. I've had what may be exactly your problem, and it's been the G string between nut and tuner giving off an unwanted tone. This is when hitting distorted chords hard and palm muting at the same time.

A G/D tree cures it; I fit one to every Strat I buy, even to my Custom Deluxe. Sod the value - the thing has to be playable!

Sorry if useless suggestion.

Cheers - Peter.


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Post subject: Re: Weird Overtones on G String
Posted: Mon Apr 08, 2019 3:38 pm
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Wow, thanks for all the feedback!

Quote:
Another problem in my case was I actually had a slight string buzz on the G that just didn't present itself without adding some drive. A quick saddle adjustment fixed that.

Overdrive produces those harmonic overtones that can bring that stuff to light. You should also check the nut and saddles. Sometimes some gunk in the nut slot or a misaligned saddle can cause a buzz or flat sounding string. Lastly and less likely you could be getting some sympathetic harmonics from your trem springs. Open the back and dampen them by hand to see if you still the sound.


A luthier with a lot of experience I trust did a full setup on this strat for me, so it's does not appear to be string buzz or mechanical.

Quote:
The pole-piece stagger on the pickups appears to be the same as you'd get on a vintage instrument, yet the fingerboard radius is 12", not the 7.25" of a vintage instrument.
Which means that the centre poles are closer to the strings than they would be with a vintage model.

You could well be experiencing Stratitis https://www.seymourduncan.com/blog/swd- ... strat-itis

The cure is to adjust the pickups so that they're farther from the strings.


I am almost certain this is it. Thing is, I have them almost as low as they can go and it's still doing it. Especially for how flat the fretboard is, the middle 2 poles are REALLY high on every pickup. It's just strange that it really doesn't jump out at all until the signal is overdriven. I talked to Fender because I don't understand why they put pickups configured this way on a guitar with a 12" neck radius. It's at a local shop they work with and I'm waiting to see what they say. I don't have high hopes they are going to cover replacing the pickups for me but it seemed at least worth a try. If setting them absolutely as low as they go will work I just hope the tone doesn't suffer either. Seems I shouldn't have to do this anyway on a brand new guitar I bought that came from the factory that way, which is why I'm giving it a shot with Fender support.

Quote:
.....Or replace them with pickups that feature non-staggered pole pieces.


Yep, which is a bummer, because these pickups otherwise sound so good. Thinking I'll go with a set of Fralin's customized for the flatter fretboard.

Quote:
Do you have a G/D string tree? If not, try simulating one. I've had what may be exactly your problem, and it's been the G string between nut and tuner giving off an unwanted tone. This is when hitting distorted chords hard and palm muting at the same time.


Interesting. In my case it isn't chords, playing hard at all or palm muting. Even when picked rather gently it just sounds terrible. The low E is doing it a bit too, particularly in the higher frets. The luthier I use said that's pretty common with it being a pickup issue.

Thanks again, appreciate all the info.

Paul


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Post subject: Re: Weird Overtones on G String
Posted: Tue Apr 09, 2019 5:28 am
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fogwolf wrote:

Quote:
Do you have a G/D string tree? If not, try simulating one. I've had what may be exactly your problem, and it's been the G string between nut and tuner giving off an unwanted tone. This is when hitting distorted chords hard and palm muting at the same time.


Interesting. In my case it isn't chords, playing hard at all or palm muting. Even when picked rather gently it just sounds terrible. The low E is doing it a bit too, particularly in the higher frets. The luthier I use said that's pretty common with it being a pickup issue.

Thanks again, appreciate all the info.

Paul


I've had pretty much exactly that. I was having real issues with the B string Sitaring. I replaced the nut which has cured this issue but I now have issues with the G string resonating above the nut. I'm going to try ramping the nut slot more to see if this helps.

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Post subject: Re: Weird Overtones on G String
Posted: Tue Apr 09, 2019 9:09 am
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Quote:
I now have issues with the G string resonating above the nut. I'm going to try ramping the nut slot more to see if this helps.
Be interested to know if that works, John. If not, I'm pretty sure a tree will cure it. You can simulate same by jamming something / anything under the other strings (between nut and tuner) and over the G, to push it down - if you see what I mean.

Fogwolf - I'm VERY reluctant to mention it because it's controversial to say the least(!), but the pole pieces are a push-fit. Particularly if your pups are wound around a former (so the windings have no contact with the slugs) it would be safe to CAREFULLY push the high ones down a bit. I do it all the time on any pups, as others do, but I'M NOT NECESSARILY RECOMMENDING IT...!!! Others on here will say you'd be mad to try it...

As you say, though, none of this should be necessary on a new guitar. Cheers - Peter.


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Post subject: Re: Weird Overtones on G String
Posted: Tue Apr 09, 2019 10:22 am
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Peter S wrote:
Fogwolf - I'm VERY reluctant to mention it because it's controversial to say the least(!), but the pole pieces are a push-fit. Particularly if your pups are wound around a former (so the windings have no contact with the slugs) it would be safe to CAREFULLY push the high ones down a bit. I do it all the time on any pups, as others do, but I'M NOT NECESSARILY RECOMMENDING IT...!!! Others on here will say you'd be mad to try it...

As you say, though, none of this should be necessary on a new guitar. Cheers - Peter.

I kept quiet on this one, but now it's been mentioned .....
If the pickup formers are plastic the pole pieces do not come into contact with the coils, so you can push them up and down until your heart's content.

These pickups have plastic formers

Image

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Post subject: Re: Weird Overtones on G String
Posted: Tue Apr 09, 2019 11:44 am
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Y'all prolly know I'm not a big fan of pole pushing, so I'll just remind that the Classic Player 60 comes with CS69 pickups. :twisted:


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Post subject: Re: Weird Overtones on G String
Posted: Tue Apr 09, 2019 11:52 am
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Quote:
Y'all prolly know I'm not a big fan of pole pushing, so I'll just remind that the Classic Player 60 comes with CS69 pickups.


Is it not as easy of an option for these then?

Also I asked the luthier today about the possibility of the string resonating behind the nut and adding a tree there. He said having a tree for the G string is not a bad idea and does help in some instances. He pointed out that I could easily test it out by tucking it in with the B string in the B-E tree that's there now to see if it makes a difference.

Still waiting to hear from the shop to see what they've found.


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Post subject: Re: Weird Overtones on G String
Posted: Tue Apr 09, 2019 6:26 pm
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fogwolf wrote:
Quote:
Y'all prolly know I'm not a big fan of pole pushing, so I'll just remind that the Classic Player 60 comes with CS69 pickups.

Is it not as easy of an option for these then?

As mentioned, if the bobbins are plastic, it's easy.
If they are fiber, the coil is wound directly onto the magnets.
You might be able to carefully move the D or G without damaging the pickup. Might.
But you do risk breaking the coil.

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Post subject: Re: Weird Overtones on G String
Posted: Thu Apr 11, 2019 2:01 pm
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I definitely think that the dirt is causing pressure on the pickups. That light pressure might be what's causing the overtones. Hope this helps!

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