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Post subject: Half a note upbend is all I can get
Posted: Sun Aug 10, 2008 4:26 pm
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I’m relatively unfamiliar with Fender two point trem systems, but I assumed that when setting one up, the bridge should be more or less parallel to the body, the problem is that the trem block ends up too close to the body on the spring side when the bridge is set level. I then have next to no movement when pulling the arm up and I can only get about half a note if that. Is this normal for a Strat or am I overlooking something else that I should be doing?
The pics below show how the trem is set up at the moment, any pointers would be appreciated.
Thanks.
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Posted: Mon Aug 11, 2008 6:52 am
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Seems like a set-up problem....do you do your own set-up of the guiutar?If not send to a luthier for a full set-up which also includes the intonation.A proper set-up will let you have a "floating" trem and will adjust the right neck relief if you prefer a low action....

Good luck


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Posted: Mon Aug 11, 2008 7:00 am
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Isn't the trem.supposed to be 1/8 inch from the body of the guitar ? If it is flush with the body you won't be able to pull up on trem arm.


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Posted: Mon Aug 11, 2008 7:22 am
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fhopkins wrote:
Isn't the trem.supposed to be 1/8 inch from the body of the guitar ? If it is flush with the body you won't be able to pull up on trem arm.


From the photo the bridge is indeed floating at the recommended height. But that is leaving the block banging into the woodwork on the upbend. Ultimately, seems like the trem route is not in exactly the right place.

Two options: route out that cavity a bit more. I've done exactly that - but you'd better know what you are doing with the router.

Or: let out the screws that attach to the plate at the other end of the trem springs. That will allow the block to move back further from the timber. However, then your intonation and action will be spoilt, so a complete fresh set-up will be necessary to adjust saddle height and distance. It is much the easier option, though.

Not confident? A tech can do all of that in minutes for not much money. Well worth it.

Cheers - C


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Posted: Mon Aug 11, 2008 7:26 am
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The bridge does not look like it is sitting in the body right to me. I recommend taking it to a Tech and have it sorted out.

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Post subject:
Posted: Mon Aug 11, 2008 7:31 am
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Ceri wrote:
fhopkins wrote:
Isn't the trem.supposed to be 1/8 inch from the body of the guitar ? If it is flush with the body you won't be able to pull up on trem arm.


From the photo the bridge is indeed floating at the recommended height. But that is leaving the block banging into the woodwork on the upbend. Ultimately, seems like the trem route is not in exactly the right place.

Two options: route out that cavity a bit more. I've done exactly that - but you'd better know what you are doing with the router.

Or: let out the screws that attach to the plate at the other end of the trem springs. That will allow the block to move back further from the timber. However, then your intonation and action will be spoilt, so a complete fresh set-up will be necessary to adjust saddle height and distance. It is much the easier option, though.

Not confident? A tech can do all of that in minutes for not much money. Well worth it.

Cheers - C

You're right, I told you my eyesight is off. All of the reflections were throwing me off. I can see now it is not flush. :oops:


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Posted: Mon Aug 11, 2008 7:49 am
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fhopkins wrote:
You're right, I told you my eyesight is off. All of the reflections were throwing me off. I can see now it is not flush. :oops:


You were complimentary about a photo of my local countryside: your eyesight seems just fine to me!

A quick suplimentary question to the OP: I notice your saddles are already quite far back on the plate... Nosy, of me, but this wouldn't happen to be a guitar that has had a six screw vintage bridge replaced with a two-point trem, would it?

I'll buy myself a drink if I'm right about that. :wink:

- C


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Post subject: 1/2 bend
Posted: Mon Aug 11, 2008 10:21 am
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i agree with chfeathers,
the bridge is oddly parallel, the block has a funky angle.
take it for a setup, but let the tech know what its doing
and show him the bridge and the block.
FYI, i bouth this book called "know your stratocsater"
pictured , and shows how to setup,pu height adjustment etc. &maintainance,
with brief history and little more helpful tidbits.
only 25bucks at barnes and nobles.
i set up both my guitars, nervous. but i pulled it off.


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Post subject:
Posted: Mon Aug 11, 2008 12:57 pm
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Thanks for all your replies and some interesting comments as well. I think some of you may be confusing the two point bridge (as is on this guitar) with a vintage style bridge which sits lower and almost flush with the body. Ceri made a few good points that I seized upon straight away, the fact that I am convinced that the whole pick guard assembly and tremolo system are newish; the idea that a vintage bridge could have been originally installed made me decide to whip off the trem to have a look. You might be a bit premature for that drink though Ceri, as there seems to be no evidence of one being installed, but you deserve one anyway for thinking of it. I decided to try a "Wilkinson V100 convertible" trem that I had kicking around that belonged to a Patrick Eggle Berlin, (a perfect fit for anyone thinking of getting one for their Strat by the way). When this bridge was set parallel there didn’t seem to be a lot more clearance than the Fender trem, so this would seem to bear out Ceri’s other point about the routing being slightly out, or possibly even the pivot posts. I persevered with the Wilkinson trem and proceeded to set the guitar up properly; I had to cheat a little bit and tilt the bridge towards the neck slightly which gave me more room between the trem block and body as again mentioned by Ceri. I can now bend up about three frets which is plenty for a Strat as far as I’m concerned. The fact that the routing or pivot posts could be out of whack on an American made Strat shocks me to say the least; I would never have thought it. I’m sticking with the Wilkinson trem for now because the arm is sprung loaded on a cam and is much smoother to use than the Fender with no arm wobble at all.
As I’m a sucker for pics and the fact they tell a better story than I can, here’s a few more.

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Post subject: trem prob
Posted: Mon Aug 11, 2008 1:11 pm
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by the way, what year is that strat?
looks aged and has a few battle scars on it.


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Post subject:
Posted: Mon Aug 11, 2008 2:28 pm
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It's a 1991 MIA standard, I bought the guitar a few months ago, advertised as well used/gigged. Personally I think it has suffered from a bit of water damage at some point as well as being well used. The pick guard and screws looks in too good a shape compared to the neck and body, to be original, along with the SCN pickups, electrics and bridge. The guitar plays great, (no issues with the neck, etc) and the electrics work perfectly and quietly. It looks a hell of a lot older than it is though :)


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Post subject:
Posted: Mon Aug 11, 2008 3:15 pm
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I'm into this a bit late, but by looking at the top pic in your original post, it looks to me like the front of the trem is higher than it should be. I would lower the pivot screws, and use the saddles to adjust string hieght. That's another thing I noticed, it looks like your low E string saddle is flat against the trem plate. Is there any chance that you've used the two pivot screws to raise your string action? If you have try lowering the trem and raising the saddles. Doing this would increase the angle in your bridge and give you more upward movement in your trem.


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Post subject:
Posted: Mon Aug 11, 2008 4:31 pm
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I know that by tilting the bridge towards the neck will move the trem block away from cavity wall, allowing more movement of the arm, but surely it shouldn’t have to be that way with a quality two point pivot trem should it? I always understood that the base of the bridge on a floating trem system should be parallel to the body (not tilting) and that the block should line up with the routing having enough space on both sides of the cavity to make the trem useable (which it hasn’t) I can’t really see any improvement being made by lifting the saddles because if I keep the base parallel to the body the block will still be at the same angle as before.
Incidentally I always set the outer saddles low to the bridge base when setting up the action on my guitars. I then adjust the bridge using the pivot height screws so that the top E and bottom E strings are just clear of the last fret. I then adjust each saddle until all the strings are just clear, that gives me the camber of the neck. Then I use the pivot screws to adjust the action. The reason I do it this way is because on some guitars like my Patrick Eggles it allows more room under the bridge for wider tremolo use.
I think I'm just going to have to stay with the tilting bridge for now :cry:


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Posted: Mon Aug 11, 2008 5:24 pm
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Paul maybe this will work if you get the chance to try it.
get the block off a lefthanded trem unit and install it if it will fit on your strat trem plate. notice the angle on your original 2 point trem block is angled. if you could fit a left hand block it would give more room for the trem to move from the looks of it. Just an idea i've no idea if its feasable or not.
Bet your wounded about the berlin being out of action, Patrick Eggle used to have factory sales every now and then. Got some great bodies and necks through that. Just before he sold the company to musical exchanges he had a clearout, berlin's were going for £700, absolute steal.

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Post subject:
Posted: Mon Aug 11, 2008 5:57 pm
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You must be able to read my mind nikininja, I was discussing just that idea with my son. At first I actually though it might have been a left handed block mounted round the wrong way, it would make more sense (on my Strat at least) to have the chamfer on the other side. I'll have to have a look and see if it would work, hopefully someone here might know.
The Berlin isn’t out of action; it’s just that I replaced all the (rusting) hardware with gold and then replaced the S.Duncan 59’s with EMG 89’s. I’ve just posted a pic of my guitars in the “post a pic of your guitars” topic you can see the Berlin there along with three others. I have heard a lot about the factory sales of Eggle parts and how good they were, you just got to be a bit careful when buying a used one :wink:


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