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Post subject: Trem system flush? Or floating?
Posted: Wed Feb 13, 2019 6:04 pm
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Just got my first strat and I’ve never had a floating trem system before. I’m wondering what the pros and cons of having it flush against the body or floating above it are. Thanks for your help!


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Post subject: Re: Trem system flush? Or floating?
Posted: Wed Feb 20, 2019 10:02 am
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Hi & sorry for the late answer - your post was probably delayed by the forum's first-post-approve-before-publish policy.

Anyways, on your question.
A floating trem gives the options of changing the note up or down, depending on which way you move the trem arm. On the other hand, it's trickier to set up properly; one has to understand the balance between string tension pulling one way and the trem springs acting as the counterforce so the trem returns to the start position. And with "big bends players", the trem will eventually give in so the other notes played at the same time sound out of tune.
A trem flush with the body can be (at least) two versions. It can be 'decked' by tightening the trem springs, so they pull the trem against the body. One can still use the trem one way. The big bends problem is still there, only not as noticeable. Or the trem can be 'blocked', with some kind of wedge(s) (usually wood, but bolts, coins, pencil erasers and whatnut have also been used) holding the trem block in one position. Easiest to set up, but the trem can't be used.

Now, since it's your first Strat (congrats), it might be wise to let a good pro do a full 'initial setup for a new guitar'.


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Post subject: Re: Trem system flush? Or floating?
Posted: Thu Feb 21, 2019 1:54 am
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Decked. Floating can be a nightmare to tune, keep in tune, retune and works against you if you do finger bends. You are limited to how much you can sharpen a note with a floating trem subject to the string anyway..

I like mine decked with just the smallest amount of lift on big bends as it feels nicer that way.

But then you can ignore me as I'm not a Whammy Waggler anyway. I can't even remember where my trem arms are.

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Post subject: Re: Trem system flush? Or floating?
Posted: Thu Feb 21, 2019 9:42 am
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I like mine decked and blocked, no wiggle room.
But your gonna have to decide how you like it based on your playing style, how you tune, how often you change strings, how comfortable you are setting up your guitar, etc.


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Post subject: Re: Trem system flush? Or floating?
Posted: Thu Feb 21, 2019 1:38 pm
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Ha! If ever there was a question where you're bound to get a ton of opposite answers, this surely is it!

I prefer floating - I don't think a Strat sounds quite like a Strat if it isn't. I have absolutely no problem with modding etc where it suits, but Strats were, I believe, designed for the trem to float. So presumably Leo thought it was better that way.

I also like slurring notes - not just scooping or divebombing, although they're both valid uses, of course. Likewise just plain wiggling for vibrato. I prefer to use finger vibrato for that, but if you're stretching & bending up to the 2nd octave it IS easier to use the trem for vibrato, I think.

Having said all that, I just bought a Les Paul (traitor!) after donkey's years of just Strats, and I'm really enjoying the hardtail experience after so long without! Very different guitar though, of course...

Sorry to be at variance with my friends, but I doubt I'll be alone. So I'd say you best try your trem both decked and floating, and make up your own mind...!

Cheers - Peter.


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Post subject: Re: Trem system flush? Or floating?
Posted: Thu Feb 21, 2019 2:49 pm
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Floating though to be honest I don't even use the trem much
I may be kicking the hornets nest but if you deck it why not just buy a hardtail?
I should be asking myself this question as well.
May be its just trad or subtle tone differences, color options or even having the option to undeck... :D


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Post subject: Re: Trem system flush? Or floating?
Posted: Thu Feb 21, 2019 3:49 pm
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jimmy_james wrote:
.....if you deck it why not just buy a hardtail?...


As Clapton pointed out, the decked trem adds something to the sound that a hard-tail doesn’t. To me it is a reverb-like sound. BTW, Clapton never “blocked” his, just decked it, with the claw screws so tight that the bridge will not move, even with extreme bending. Decked, ala Clpton, is the way I prefer my Strats with the six screw bridge, because despite what anyone wants to believe, they just don’t stay in tune with much whammy use, nearly as well as some more modern designs.

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Post subject: Re: Trem system flush? Or floating?
Posted: Thu Feb 21, 2019 4:19 pm
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jimmy_james wrote:
... if you deck it why not just buy a hardtail?...


Because they are like hens teeth.

I have one which I love but it does feel different to a decked trem. It is difficult to describe and "Sterile" doesn't do it justice. Just that little bit of compliance you get from a decked trem as it gets that slight lift on a big bend seems more tactile.

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Post subject: Re: Trem system flush? Or floating?
Posted: Thu Feb 21, 2019 4:42 pm
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I've always had mine floating. I've never had issues of it staying in tune. Maybe I have just been lucky.


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Post subject: Re: Trem system flush? Or floating?
Posted: Thu Feb 21, 2019 5:21 pm
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Hardtails give me the willies. If you’re at all normal they’re creep you out too :shock: just joking... NOT :lol: fyi fender.com has float instructions along with all other setup procedures, but you probably knew that. Anyway, I have a handful of strats with vintage six screw and two screw tremolos with low to very high floats, and they stay perfectly in tune even when beating the crap out of the trem. That wasn’t initially the case. I learned over the years and got it down to my own science. Setting them up properly, using lube or graphite on the nut slots, trees and saddles, using good springs, using locking tuners or properly stringing vintage tuners, changing strings one at a time and in a certain order, are all good tips, but a good thorough setup and float will get you 95% there without all that other stuff. Countless great strat players past and present floated/float without any black magic. The more you set up your strat the more expert you’ll become, and eventually get away from reliance on all the videos and other online sources you’ll find on the floating procedure (all good). Side note, there are guys who pull off insane bends with floaters (without palm pressure on the bridge to overcome the give of the springs). It’s all in the setup and strength/technique. And yes, the give will flatten other strings but the degree and how it affects your sound depends on your individual playing style/technique/skill. Again, there are countless famous float players whom you can listen to without detecting (let alone being distracted by) the quote unquote cons of floating trems.


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Post subject: Re: Trem system flush? Or floating?
Posted: Thu Feb 21, 2019 6:17 pm
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Holy bologna I wasn’t expecting this many responses. Thanks for all the answers! I knew there wouldn’t be a one size fits all answer for something like this, but I figured it didn’t hurt to put the feelers out and see what other people go for. I’ve always had hard tails so a floating trem is a new beast for me to tame. Thanks again for all the responses! Much appreciated!


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Post subject: Re: Trem system flush? Or floating?
Posted: Thu Feb 21, 2019 7:13 pm
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I no longer deck a trem.
I will block it very securely with wedges it but I won't deck it.
That requires too much set up if I decide to unblock it.
For floaters I like a fairly good float.
Maybe 70% down and 30% up, maybe 60/40, depends on how I feel at the time.
I'll angle the claw to improve tuning stability, which I do believe does work especially in conjunction with a roller nut or a good shot of nut sauce..
When I set up a guitar I will set it up to that spec first.
Then block it in that position if I want it blocked.
If I decide to pull the wedges, my setup time is very short.

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Post subject: Re: Trem system flush? Or floating?
Posted: Thu Feb 21, 2019 9:47 pm
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John Sims wrote:
jimmy_james wrote:
... if you deck it why not just buy a hardtail?...

Because they are like hens teeth.

This.
I think there's only two Artist model Strats with a hardtail... the Robert Cray, and the Jim Root. With EMGs and only a single volume pot and no tone, some might argue that the Root is not even a "real" Strat, but ironically, though it's basically a "SuperStrat", it has an HT rather than a Floyd.
The Hammond Artist model has a 6-screw bridge, but doesn't include the tremolo arm!
There are no other HT's available except for the Whiteguard Strat/Tele hybrid (and conversely, the Nashville Tele with it's 3 pickups).

So... if you really want an HT Strat, you want a Tele :lol:

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Post subject: Re: Trem system flush? Or floating?
Posted: Thu Feb 21, 2019 11:50 pm
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That whiteguard strat does something for me. If I get some money together... :D


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Post subject: Re: Trem system flush? Or floating?
Posted: Fri Feb 22, 2019 3:52 am
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Cheesy_f_baby wrote:
I knew there wouldn’t be a one size fits all answer for something like this

Like BMW-KTM's answer shows, there's not even a 'one size fits one' answer.
I have one Strat "Clapton blocked" (yea, I've read that EC doesn't use the actual wood wedge, but that piece of valuable info wasn't in the web wisdom, way back when I blocked it - which might even have been before the web, come to think of it...), others floating.
Can't say I hear any reverbism on the blocked one (it's a DIY wedge, not a Fender one, which may explain this), but it's my small, unnoticed hommage.

On the hardtails: a Strat has a tremolo, period. :wink:

PS: notice how optimistic the starting line on this other topic is:
https://forums.fender.com/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=61937


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