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Post subject: Blocking my trem?
Posted: Wed Aug 06, 2008 5:01 pm
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Hi

Just got my 2008 American Standard!! Tobacco sunburst w/ maple fretboard! Sweet!

Do I have to block my trem if I switch back and forth between drop D and standard?


Thanks!!


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Post subject:
Posted: Thu Aug 07, 2008 7:09 am
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Anyone have expierence with changing back and forth from Drop D and standard on a strat.
This is my first trem equipped guitar.
Thanks


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Posted: Thu Aug 07, 2008 7:23 am
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I don’t play drop d much at all but I do remember watching an interview with Gary Hoey once and he tuned up and down in and out of drop d through the whole thing so I would think not much adjustment would be needed…but then again we are talking about the MAN Mr Hoey

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Posted: Thu Aug 07, 2008 7:36 am
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Yes it advisable to do atleast a partial block of the trem:
Technically u can detune to D while ur trem is 'floating' & it will sound ok I guess.
I have done that myself & got away with it Live, but for recording. naaahh
Actually when u detune the 6th string to D the whole guitar goes slightly out of tune.
Let me explain. Look at the pic below.
Image
I am trying to show u the balance between string tension & spring tension.
When u decrease the tension of the 6th string (detune to D),
that allows the spring tension to pull the bridge back
(as if u were lifting up very slightly on the wammy bar).
The result is the entire guitar goes sharp a semitone (less than a half step higher in pitch).
Even though the guitar is in tune with itself, it is no longer in 440 tuning (not in tune with the band).
Try it with a tuner u will see what I mean.

The image below is a blocked trem using the 'wood block' technique.
Image
Although in your case you may only need to block the front side under there.
So that the trem will not pull upward, that way when u detune, the guitar can't go sharp.
But you can still dive downward on the tremolo.
There are many techniques u can use for blocking a tremolo.
Some were discussed here in the forum already...
http://www.fender.com/community/forums/ ... hp?t=10458

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Last edited by bss on Fri Aug 15, 2008 6:06 pm, edited 6 times in total.

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Post subject:
Posted: Thu Aug 07, 2008 1:03 pm
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bss wrote:
Yes it advisable to do atleast a partial block of the trem:
Technically u can detune to D while ur trem is 'floating' & it will sound ok I guess.
I have done that myself & got away with it Live, but for recording. naaahh
Actually when u detune the 6th string to D the whole guitar goes slightly out of tune.
Let me explain. Look at the pic below.
Image
I am trying to show u the balance between string tension & spring tension.
When u decrease the tension of the 6th string (detune to D),
that allows the spring tension to pull the bridge back
(as if u were lifting up very slightly on the wammy bar).
The result is the entire guitar goes sharp a semitone (less than a half step higher in pitch).
Even though the guitar is in tune with itself, it is no longer in 440 tuning (not in tune with the band).
Try it with a tuner u will see what I mean.

The image below is a blocked trem using the 'wood block' technique.
Image
Although in your case you may only need to block the front side under there.
So that the trem will not pull upward, that way when u detune, the guitar can't go sharp.
But you can still dive downward on the tremolo.
There are many techniques u can use for blocking a tremolo.
Some were discussed here in the forum already...
http://www.fender.com/community/forums/ ... hp?t=10458


Hey BSS this is good to know I didn't even think about the trem floating. I'm one of those that keeps the trem flush to the body because I so rarely use it and when I do it is for just a little twang vibrato. This is why I love this forum, it kinda keeps you in check

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Post subject:
Posted: Thu Aug 07, 2008 2:14 pm
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bss wrote:
Yes it advisable to do atleast a partial block of the trem:
Technically u can detune to D while ur trem is 'floating' & it will sound ok I guess.
I have done that myself & got away with it Live, but for recording. naaahh
Actually when u detune the 6th string to D the whole guitar goes slightly out of tune.
Let me explain. Look at the pic below.
Image
I am trying to show u the balance between string tension & spring tension.
When u decrease the tension of the 6th string (detune to D),
that allows the spring tension to pull the bridge back
(as if u were lifting up very slightly on the wammy bar).
The result is the entire guitar goes sharp a semitone (less than a half step higher in pitch).
Even though the guitar is in tune with itself, it is no longer in 440 tuning (not in tune with the band).
Try it with a tuner u will see what I mean.

The image below is a blocked trem using the 'wood block' technique.
Image
Although in your case you may only need to block the front side under there.
So that the trem will not pull upward, that way when u detune, the guitar can't go sharp.
But you can still dive downward on the tremolo.
There are many techniques u can use for blocking a tremolo.
Some were discussed here in the forum already...
http://www.fender.com/community/forums/ ... hp?t=10458


BSS - thanks!
That is a HUGE help to me. I love the idea of still being able to use the trem downwards. I thought I'd have to block it both ways.
Thanks again!!


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Posted: Thu Aug 07, 2008 4:02 pm
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Hey bro! You don't have to do that at all and here's why...I play in "D" across the board so I do a "claw" adjustment when I get a new axe anyway. I usually cut the strings off (because they're usually 9's which are too light) and change them to 10's, then tune it to "D" across the board, then do a claw adjustment until the trem is at the correct position once again. I also write some songs that are tuned to "D" across the board with a drop "C" on the low "D" string and if everything is set-up correctly, then there is virtually no change in the trem position at all (not even enough to see with the naked eye). If you need help in doing a claw adjustment, then just let me know and I'd be more than happy to walk you through it bro. Don't over-think what is so easy to overcome... :twisted:

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Posted: Fri Aug 08, 2008 2:22 pm
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Shreddin wrote:
Hey bro! You don't have to do that at all and here's why...I play in "D" across the board so I do a "claw" adjustment when I get a new axe anyway. I usually cut the strings off (because they're usually 9's which are too light) and change them to 10's, then tune it to "D" across the board, then do a claw adjustment until the trem is at the correct position once again. I also write some songs that are tuned to "D" across the board with a drop "C" on the low "D" string and if everything is set-up correctly, then there is virtually no change in the trem position at all (not even enough to see with the naked eye). If you need help in doing a claw adjustment, then just let me know and I'd be more than happy to walk you through it bro. Don't over-think what is so easy to overcome... :twisted:


Thanks!
But will that work in my situation where I switch back and forth betwween drop D and standard a lot during our sets?


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Posted: Fri Aug 08, 2008 2:31 pm
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Asylum wrote:
Shreddin wrote:
Hey bro! You don't have to do that at all and here's why...I play in "D" across the board so I do a "claw" adjustment when I get a new axe anyway. I usually cut the strings off (because they're usually 9's which are too light) and change them to 10's, then tune it to "D" across the board, then do a claw adjustment until the trem is at the correct position once again. I also write some songs that are tuned to "D" across the board with a drop "C" on the low "D" string and if everything is set-up correctly, then there is virtually no change in the trem position at all (not even enough to see with the naked eye). If you need help in doing a claw adjustment, then just let me know and I'd be more than happy to walk you through it bro. Don't over-think what is so easy to overcome... :twisted:

Thanks!
But will that work in my situation where I switch back and forth betwween drop D and standard a lot during our sets?

I don't advise that in a live situation.
Unless u want the band & audience waiting on you to 'tinker' with a guitar between songs.
That doesn't make the band look good in my opinion.
It's bad enough u are taking a second to detune.
I always try to be ready within 0 - 10 seconds (silently) & I am ready for the next song.
That means the croud does not hear me tuning between songs.
This is a live show, not a guitar store...
It is best to keep that stuff to minimum as much as possible.
The best solution in my opinion is using different axes with different setups live.
But that isn't the inexpensive option.
I also made sure each guitar had a backup guitar... in case i break a string.
Part of what I am doing now is trying to keep the number of guitars
I use to a minimum but get what I need from it all.

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Post subject:
Posted: Mon Aug 11, 2008 12:38 pm
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It seems to me like if you were willing to give up the ability to bend notes up with the tremolo, you could set the guitar up so that the bridge is flush with body in standard tuning. Then, when you tune to drop D (lowering the tension of the strings), the bridge couldn't move, so your tuning wouldn't change (maybe a tiny bit from deflection in the neck, but it doesn't seem like this could be very significant). In this setup, the tremolo would probably be harder to move in drop D than in standard, since the tension of the strings and the springs are a little unbalanced.


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Posted: Mon Aug 11, 2008 1:28 pm
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use a second guitar. beats the crap outta all that foolin around. :wink:


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Posted: Mon Aug 11, 2008 1:55 pm
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Yeah , just buy a VG strat and forget it! HA! :wink:
Just ask Gil about it.


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