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Post subject: Dead sounding strat
Posted: Mon Dec 31, 2018 4:48 am
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Greetings all.

Long term member returning from a break from playing with family/kids/works taking over as they have a habit of doing.

I have a 2011 62 hot rod strat which was/is the best strat I've had and very much my number 1. I've had it from new and it has remained my go to guitar while others, including Custom Shop strats, have come and gone.

It was in its case for around a year untill I got the itch and started playing again around 6 months ago.

What I've noticed is that the guitar feels dead on all strings anywhere above the 11th/12th fret. Unplugged the guitar has no resonance through the body,vibrance or sustain above this point on the fret board. This particular characteristic is one of this guitars appeal to me and it always felt vibrant and alive almost. Initially I put the issue down to sloppy playing and bad technique on my part due to lack of playing. But as I'm slowly getting back to where I was, the issue is even more noticeable. To get any note definition and sustain Im having to hit the strings fairly hard, there fore loosing touch and feel whilst playing. Anywhere lower down the fret board, it feels and plays just like how it always has.

I have re strung it several time in the last 6 months. Current set around 3 weeks old.
I set up my own guitars, this one has always been tuned to Eb with 11-49s.
In an attempt to increase sustain and definition I have almost decked the trem with 4 springs with adjusting the trem claw and have readjusted string height to suit.
I set the saddles high a first to reduce the possibility of a fret issue, before setting string action to my normal level. I couldn't give you a measurement off the top of my head as I'm very much a feel player, but it is a fraction higher that the starting point as recommended. I also tweaked the neck to for a fraction more relief as I felt a little fret buzzy around the 6th-8th frets when I first give it a set up/check over when I first got it back out the case. FWIW, it was stored upright and not on its back.
I've lowered the pick ups a tad to eliminate magnetic pull, all to no avail.

Am I missing something simple??
My one other strat and tele are now better players than my long term keeper.

Any suggestions more than appreciated.

Happy new year to all as well.

Regards.
DC


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Post subject: Re: Dead sounding strat
Posted: Mon Dec 31, 2018 1:58 pm
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Strange. Obviously the natural sustain up high is not going to be the same as down low..... less string to oscillate. But if you are noticing it, you are noticing it. Are you absolutely certain this is something that has changed from before?

I know you said that it was a feature you always liked but are you pretty sure it was not that way before, specifically up high on the fretboard?

Off the top of my head I'm not sure what it might be other than something loose might be vibrating and killing the guitar's natural sustain/resonance. Myself, I would check tightness of the neck screws and the screws holding the bridge plate to the bridge/string/tremelo block first. Do a general tighten up if you haven't already. If your machine heads have the threaded collar nuts...make sure they are snug too. Pull the knobs and check tightness on the pot nuts...jack plug nut, the jackplate, scratch plate and selector switch, string tree and strap button screws....go through everything.

Have you changed string brand at all? If not, is it possible your favorite strings have changed somehow? I used to get D'Addario's and the packing always said Swedish Lock Twist Steel. I used to notice I could feel a sort of 'spiral' in the steel on the plain strings when I pulled a loose 1st, 2nd or 3rd string through my fingers. When I came to the US, I kept using them but then they seemed to not please me anymore and also, I did not notice the spiral thing anymore. Lo and behold....no mention of Swedish lock twist steel on the packaging either. I felt certain that they changed composition or something...sourced stuff from a different vendor perhaps. I went through some other brands.......Ernie Ball, GHS etc. Now I'm on DR Pure Blues mostly.

Also....check the relief on the neck again. It's possible it needs a truss rod adjustment after all these years. Strings fretting out a little bit up high? How well is the bridge plate adjusted....is it a 6 screw type or 2?

Lastly......I used to string with .011's for years on my '64. Started off on Picato .008's when I got the Strat as a kid....went to D'Addario .009's for a long time and then to .011's where I stayed-using both Eb and concert tuning. Recently I went to .010's on all my electric guitars and am liking it better.

Last night, I strung up my old '64 with Jimi's gauges (ironically a set made up of D'Addario individual strings). 10, 13, 15, 26, 32, 38. Even tuned down a 1/2 step they are nice to play although I have to really concentrate on not fretting too hard. I feel the slightly lighter strings ring and sustain better than the heavier .011's. Perhaps it has to do with the extra tension of a heavy set. The .010's seem to sparkle more if that makes sense and it's probably just a personal thing for me. But for example....Jimi's use of a 15 for the 3rd had to do with reducing the loudness of the 3rd string....balancing it out better with a Strat and it's fixed pole pieces. It really does seem to do so, now that I tried out such a light 3rd myself. Could be imagination though......LOL.....I don't want to seem like I'm any sort of authority on the matter. I've only been playing for 50 years or so. :wink:

Why don't you try a set of .010's and see if the guitar pleases you better?

You've probably already done everything I suggested in terms of set up and tightening etc. Just throwing stuff out for thought.

Happy New Year!


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Post subject: Re: Dead sounding strat
Posted: Mon Dec 31, 2018 4:14 pm
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Given the London locale and the fact that the guitar was entombed in its case for over a year, excessive humidity may be a factor.

Arjay

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Post subject: Re: Dead sounding strat
Posted: Wed Jan 02, 2019 2:32 am
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Thankyou for the suggestions.

Yesterday, once the hangover fog had cleared. I stripped the guitar totally and checked and tightened every screw/fixing possible. Re set it up from scratch and there was what appeared to be a slight improvement. Will let it settle for a couple of days and see how it performs.
I did find that I had a fair bit to much relief in the neck.

Thanks for the input.

Regards
DC


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Post subject: Re: Dead sounding strat
Posted: Wed Jan 02, 2019 2:55 am
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Retroverbial wrote:
Given the London locale and the fact that the guitar was entombed in its case for over a year, excessive humidity may be a factor.

Arjay



It make sense to me. Wait until guitar is dry.


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Post subject: Re: Dead sounding strat
Posted: Wed Jan 02, 2019 5:48 am
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dc01 wrote:
What I've noticed is that the guitar feels dead on all strings anywhere above the 11th/12th fret. Unplugged the guitar has no resonance through the body,vibrance or sustain above this point on the fret board.
(…)
To get any note definition and sustain Im having to hit the strings fairly hard, there fore loosing touch and feel whilst playing. Anywhere lower down the fret board, it feels and plays just like how it always has.

dc01 wrote:
I did find that I had a fair bit to much relief in the neck.

Problems on the higher frets often indicate too much relief, like Fumbly already mentioned, and the storage/humidity may be the cause behind increased relief.

Might be a good idea to test the guitar with almost no relief. You say you setup by feel, but try something like "a third of Fender recommendations" ( https://support.fender.com/hc/en-us/art ... -properly- ) or even below, see if the magic in the sounds comes back.


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Post subject: Re: Dead sounding strat
Posted: Wed Jan 02, 2019 5:58 am
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".....guitar feels dead on all strings anywhere above the 11th/12th fret. "

Dead sounding when fretting string above 11th / 12 th fret have nothing to do with a neck relief IMO


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Post subject: Re: Dead sounding strat
Posted: Wed Jan 02, 2019 10:53 am
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stratele52 wrote:
".....guitar feels dead on all strings anywhere above the 11th/12th fret. "

Dead sounding when fretting string above 11th / 12 th fret have nothing to do with a neck relief IMO
That's my opinion, too.
If we were talking about the 5th through 8th frets and the saddles were a bit on the low side then I could envision too much relief being the cause of dead sounding strings.

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Post subject: Re: Dead sounding strat
Posted: Wed Jan 02, 2019 11:43 am
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Well, testing with a very small relief won't hurt anything, and is fully reversible...


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Post subject: Re: Dead sounding strat
Posted: Wed Jan 02, 2019 12:49 pm
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Low action and / or up bow or straight neck = string buzz.


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Post subject: Re: Dead sounding strat
Posted: Wed Jan 02, 2019 4:20 pm
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[quote="dc01"]Yesterday, once the hangover fog had cleared. I stripped the guitar totally and checked and tightened every screw/fixing possible. Re set it up from scratch and there was what appeared to be a slight improvement. Will let it settle for a couple of days and see how it performs.
I did find that I had a fair bit to much relief in the neck.quote]

Find yourself a GOOD (that's the trick) tech/luthier, pay a few quid and I guarantee you'll be happy! I've always done my own setups and thought I was pretty good at it, but a pro job leaves mine for dead!

I'd recommend mine, but he's way out on the Suffolk coast; 80-odd miles from me, but probably further from you, depending where you are in London. Must be a few decent ones your way, though...

Cheers - Peter.


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Post subject: Re: Dead sounding strat
Posted: Wed Jan 02, 2019 6:29 pm
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Peter S wrote:
Find yourself a GOOD (that's the trick) tech/luthier, pay a few quid and I guarantee you'll be happy! I've always done my own setups and thought I was pretty good at it, but a pro job leaves mine for dead! Peter.
Peter, don't sell yourself short. There's maybe 2 things I won't attempt on a Strat and that's cutting nut slots and doing fretwork. Otherwise, everything else is doable. If the guitar is totally trashed, then that's different. Get another one.


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Post subject: Re: Dead sounding strat
Posted: Thu Jan 03, 2019 12:13 am
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I had never dressed frets before either until my first time just a few years ago.
It turned out to be not that hard.
The polishing afterward takes a lot of elbow grease though.
A lot of elbow grease.

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Post subject: Re: Dead sounding strat
Posted: Fri Jan 04, 2019 9:09 am
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Thanks for the suggestions all.

Its not playing to bad currently and seems to be getting a bit of life back into it.
I do think a fret dress may be in order as I have got a slight choking out on the e and b stings at 15th fret just short of a full note bend. Don't really want to take the action any higher, I play with a fairly high action anyway, just over 2mm on g,b and e strings when measured as per set up guide, but anymore would be a bit much for me.

Thanks again.


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Post subject: Re: Dead sounding strat
Posted: Fri Jan 04, 2019 9:28 am
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dc01 wrote:
Thanks for the suggestions all.

Its not playing to bad currently and seems to be getting a bit of life back into it.
I do think a fret dress may be in order as I have got a slight choking out on the e and b stings at 15th fret just short of a full note bend. Don't really want to take the action any higher, I play with a fairly high action anyway, just over 2mm on g,b and e strings when measured as per set up guide, but anymore would be a bit much for me.

Thanks again.


Sooooo .... in other words .....
There was never anything wrong with it.

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