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Post subject: Where to look
Posted: Sat Nov 24, 2018 1:45 pm
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Last night I purchased a 2003 Fender Standard Stratocaster online. I am recovering from a spine surgery and being stuck in the bed with a tablet and a credit card is a bad combination. Hehe

It is black with a maple fretboard and SSS pickup configuration. While I was waiting for my guitar to arrive I decided to find out as much about the guitar as possible, compare it with more recent versions of the MIM, etc. Anyways, unless my Google Fu is failing me or possibly the pain killers, there doesn't seem to be any sort of online database for Fender specs for the different year models.

Surely this cannot be the case in the era we live in. So, I figured this would be the place to ask the question ... "Where do you people find the specs for prior year guitars?".


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Post subject: Re: Where to look
Posted: Sun Nov 25, 2018 12:00 am
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Many of us rely on back issues of Fender's Frontline catalog for that data. Perusing my archived copy, your guitar in factory trim is shown to be:

Fender P/N 013-4600 (rosewood), 013-4602 (maple)
Poplar body
21 medium-jumbo frets
9½" fretboard radius
Sealed die-cast tuning machines
Three single-coil pickups with ceramic magnets
Five-way switching, with V-T-T controls
Vintage-style tremolo bridge with 2-1/16" string spacing
Available in six finishes: Black, Agave Blue Metallic, Brown Sunburst, Midnight Wine, Arctic White, and Sage Green Metallic

Arjay

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Post subject: Re: Where to look
Posted: Sun Nov 25, 2018 12:49 am
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Retroverbial wrote:
Many of us rely on back issues of Fender's Frontline catalog for that data. Perusing my archived copy, your guitar in factory trim is shown to be:

Fender P/N 013-4600 (rosewood), 013-4602 (maple)
Poplar body
21 medium-jumbo frets
9½" fretboard radius
Sealed die-cast tuning machines
Three single-coil pickups with ceramic magnets
Five-way switching, with V-T-T controls
Vintage-style tremolo bridge with 2-1/16" string spacing
Available in six finishes: Black, Agave Blue Metallic, Brown Sunburst, Midnight Wine, Arctic White, and Sage Green Metallic

Arjay


Thank you very much for the information. I wasn't excited to read that it is poplar instead of alder. Oh well. I should have just bought a Squier Classic Vibe. It is a shame too. I added a new/upgraded everything for it. Looks like l will have to get a Warmoth body now

Shocking that Fender doesn't have this info online. I made the choice to buy based on incorrect info in another forum. Well maybe it will terrible once I have swapped out everything. At least long enough to get a alder body in. Based upon that info that I read elsewhere, I wasn't expecting medium jumbo frets. It said MiM didn't switch to medium jumbo until 2006. So that will take a little of the sting out of having a poplar body.

Thank you again for taking the time to research this for me.


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Post subject: Re: Where to look
Posted: Sun Nov 25, 2018 1:56 am
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Poplar is a bit lighter, but honestly, I don't think you will hear a difference, other than a little less pain in your shoulder.
There's a whole mythos about tonewoods... it's as bad as mentioning synthetic oil and Fram filters on auto forums or "accidental discharge" on firearms forums.... but some pretty "with it" guys have done double-blind tests and it is nearly impossible to tell the difference in the amplified tone of two identical guitars made from different wood.
Yes, there is a very definite difference in the unplugged acoustic tone, but it really doesn't transfer into the amp.
I've got a poplar Kramer and at one time had a plywood Squier and Hondo. All sounded just fine.

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Post subject: Re: Where to look
Posted: Sun Nov 25, 2018 3:39 am
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CB91710 wrote:
Poplar is a bit lighter, but honestly, I don't think you will hear a difference, other than a little less pain in your shoulder.

+1

There's nothing wrong with poplar other than its grain is less pleasing to the eye than alder or ash. Leo Fender himself specified poplar for the body of his Duo-Sonic when it was introduced in the mid '50s. As tonewoods go, I'd regard it as just as good as alder. A decent pickup upgrade and a steel trem block is all that your new Strat really needs, certainly not a new body.

Arjay

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"Here's why reliability is job one: A great sounding amp that breaks down goes from being a favorite piece of gear to a useless piece of crap in less time than it takes to read this sentence." -- BRUCE ZINKY


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Post subject: Re: Where to look
Posted: Sun Nov 25, 2018 4:44 am
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Wood is so incredibly variable - you would think it had just grown outside or something [joke]

I really wouldn't get hung up on the species as you can have Poplar that, in structural terms, is more like Alder and vice versa.

I like light guitars and my new favourite is Swap Ash for that reason. But you can have Swap Ash bodies that are lighter, or heavier, than Alder or Poplar subject to the particular log the original timber came from.

This being the case, as noted above, some of the driving force on particular timbers in Strats is aesthetics and therefor completely irrelevant on a solid colour guitar. Considering Leo made his first guitars out of Pine and then changed for no other reason than cost - Pine may be marginally cheaper to buy but costs more to process because of the variable grain and propensity of knots, there was certainly no consideration for "Tone Woods".

Even these blind tests by learned individuals are going to be arbitrary because of the potential variation in timber from one species alone.

As for "should have bought a Squier Classic Vibe." As I understand, these are really great guitars but you can only tell if it is better than yours by playing the two back to back. And you might be playing a good one or a bad one. Subsequent upgrades on a Squier may be more difficult and there will be depreciation on a new Squier which wont be the case on a Fender bought second hand. There will always be some badge snobbery with Squier as well (justified or otherwise). Personally I would go for a second hand Fender over a Squier.

With regard to the Warmouth body. If it makes you happy go for it. It may, or may not sound or feel better, once assembled but it will be an exciting adventure. Financially it will be a disaster as the finished guitar will be worth less than it is now + you have paid out for a body. But what the heck. Consider it an investment in experience and enjoyment. I get much more pleasure in playing the guitars I have worked on for the very reason they are a part of me. They might not be perfect, or better than my factory guitars, but I still get an extra thrill out of playing them.

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After all this time I should be better.


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Post subject: Re: Where to look
Posted: Sun Nov 25, 2018 6:48 am
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CB91710 wrote:
Poplar is a bit lighter, but honestly, I don't think you will hear a difference, other than a little less pain in your shoulder.
There's a whole mythos about tonewoods... it's as bad as mentioning synthetic oil and Fram filters on auto forums or "accidental discharge" on firearms forums.... but some pretty "with it" guys have done double-blind tests and it is nearly impossible to tell the difference in the amplified tone of two identical guitars made from different wood.
Yes, there is a very definite difference in the unplugged acoustic tone, but it really doesn't transfer into the amp.
I've got a poplar Kramer and at one time had a plywood Squier and Hondo. All sounded just fine.


Yeah. I guess poplar won’t be that bad. I did some reading last night on it. I just really wanted alder.

Thanks for taking the time to reply.


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Post subject: Re: Where to look
Posted: Sun Nov 25, 2018 6:56 am
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Retroverbial wrote:
CB91710 wrote:
Poplar is a bit lighter, but honestly, I don't think you will hear a difference, other than a little less pain in your shoulder.

+1

There's nothing wrong with poplar other than its grain is less pleasing to the eye than alder or ash. Leo Fender himself specified poplar for the body of his Duo-Sonic when it was introduced in the mid '50s. As tonewoods go, I'd regard it as just as good as alder. A decent pickup upgrade and a steel trem block is all that your new Strat really needs, certainly not a new body.

Arjay


Hey. Thanks for replying again with a follow up.

After getting over the initial disappointment, I am going to enjoy the guitar. It is black after all so the ugliness of the wood shouldn’t be visible.

Before finding out about the wood, I had already order either new or upgraded everything. From screws to pickups to wire to yeah, everything. The only things that will be the same is literally just the wood and the frets.


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Post subject: Re: Where to look
Posted: Sun Nov 25, 2018 7:14 am
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John Sims wrote:
Wood is so incredibly variable - you would think it had just grown outside or something [joke]

I really wouldn't get hung up on the species as you can have Poplar that, in structural terms, is more like Alder and vice versa.

I like light guitars and my new favourite is Swap Ash for that reason. But you can have Swap Ash bodies that are lighter, or heavier, than Alder or Poplar subject to the particular log the original timber came from.

This being the case, as noted above, some of the driving force on particular timbers in Strats is aesthetics and therefor completely irrelevant on a solid colour guitar. Considering Leo made his first guitars out of Pine and then changed for no other reason than cost - Pine may be marginally cheaper to buy but costs more to process because of the variable grain and propensity of knots, there was certainly no consideration for "Tone Woods".

Even these blind tests by learned individuals are going to be arbitrary because of the potential variation in timber from one species alone.

As for "should have bought a Squier Classic Vibe." As I understand, these are really great guitars but you can only tell if it is better than yours by playing the two back to back. And you might be playing a good one or a bad one. Subsequent upgrades on a Squier may be more difficult and there will be depreciation on a new Squier which wont be the case on a Fender bought second hand. There will always be some badge snobbery with Squier as well (justified or otherwise). Personally I would go for a second hand Fender over a Squier.

With regard to the Warmouth body. If it makes you happy go for it. It may, or may not sound or feel better, once assembled but it will be an exciting adventure. Financially it will be a disaster as the finished guitar will be worth less than it is now + you have paid out for a body. But what the heck. Consider it an investment in experience and enjoyment. I get much more pleasure in playing the guitars I have worked on for the very reason they are a part of me. They might not be perfect, or better than my factory guitars, but I still get an extra thrill out of playing them.



Hey John, thanks for writing up such a lengthy and helpful post.

After does lot of reading after the initial disappointment, I am just going to enjoy the guitar. I just really wanted alder. I wanted my strat to be made of what my mind said was the usual wood for a strat either alder or ash. Having messed with poplar before in non-guitar related woodworking projects, it is hard to get excited about poplar. It is really a disgusting looking wood.

The comments about the Classic Vibe and the Warmoth body was just because I initially saw a poplar strat as something less than a traditional strat.

As I mentioned in one of my other replies, I had already ordered a replacement or upgrade for everything that wasn’t wood or the frets. So, I is mainly about having fun tinkering and tweaking with the guitar. I think all the parts start arriving today and the guitar should be here on Tuesday or Wednesday, the tracking number isn’t working yet. So, the fun should start next week.

I don’t know about this one being an investment. I have spent as much ordering replacements and upgrades as I spent on the guitar itself. So, I will never, ever get anywhere close to what I have in it.

Thanks again for replying John.


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Post subject: Re: Where to look
Posted: Sun Nov 25, 2018 9:22 am
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Got to go with everyone else on this! I had a poplar Strat in the 90's and there was nothing wrong with it at all. Through my amp setup it sounded exactly the same as my alder Strats.

As I recall, a lot of poplar Strats were made in those years, and - if the body wasn't that squared-off shape, which I never liked - I'd happily have another.

Cheers - Peter.


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Post subject: Re: Where to look
Posted: Sun Nov 25, 2018 10:14 am
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RobbSnow wrote:
Before finding out about the wood, I had already order either new or upgraded everything. From screws to pickups to wire to yeah, everything. The only things that will be the same is literally just the wood and the frets.


I've got a couple of MIJ Strats that I've upgraded in that exact same manner. The "furniture" was first rate but the electronics and the hardware were marginal. The beauty is, if the guitar says "Fender" on the headstock then most Fender parts will fit it without issue. No so with many of the Squiers, whose components usually vary in dimension to prevent just such "meddling".

Rawk on, Robb......I hope your recuperation is swift and painless.

Arjay

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"Here's why reliability is job one: A great sounding amp that breaks down goes from being a favorite piece of gear to a useless piece of crap in less time than it takes to read this sentence." -- BRUCE ZINKY


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Post subject: Re: Where to look
Posted: Sun Nov 25, 2018 2:48 pm
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Retroverbial wrote:
RobbSnow wrote:
Before finding out about the wood, I had already order either new or upgraded everything. From screws to pickups to wire to yeah, everything. The only things that will be the same is literally just the wood and the frets.


I've got a couple of MIJ Strats that I've upgraded in that exact same manner. The "furniture" was first rate but the electronics and the hardware were marginal. The beauty is, if the guitar says "Fender" on the headstock then most Fender parts will fit it without issue. No so with many of the Squiers, whose components usually vary in dimension to prevent just such "meddling".

Rawk on, Robb......I hope your recuperation is swift and painless.

Arjay


Thanks man. The boat has sailed on the painless part already though. 'Tis not all bad though. I got a couple of months of laying in bed and playing guitar ahead of me.

Again thanks for your help. That was really nice of you to look that info up for me.

Take care


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Post subject: Re: Where to look
Posted: Sun Nov 25, 2018 10:47 pm
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RobbSnow wrote:
... I added a new/upgraded everything for it ...

I am not going to address the body, as that topic has been addressed already by the forum's as-usual-stellar advice. But I am assuming that you changed out the pickups as part of "everything". What are you going with for those?

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Post subject: Re: Where to look
Posted: Sun Nov 25, 2018 11:09 pm
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01GT eibach wrote:
RobbSnow wrote:
... I added a new/upgraded everything for it ...

I am not going to address the body, as that topic has been addressed already by the forum's as-usual-stellar advice. But I am assuming that you changed out the pickups as part of "everything". What are you going with for those?


Oh yeah. I certainly ordered a new set of pickups. I am not a big fan ceramic pickups and I went into this purchase with plan of replacing everything that wasn’t wood or fret. If it ends up actually needing a regret, I’ll probably just buy a new Fender neck.

From reading online reviews and listening to YouTube videos There were things about the Original 57/62s and the Tex-Mex’s that I liked about each of them.

In the end I went ahead and ordered the Tex-Mex ones. Until the guitar actually gets here, I don’t have any idea on if it still has the stock pickups in it or not. If the pickups are indeed stock and I end up not liking the Tex-Mex pickups, I’ll order the 57/62s.

Not sure if those two are popular choices on this board but they both have a lot of information about them out there.


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Post subject: Re: Where to look
Posted: Sun Nov 25, 2018 11:18 pm
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Among the Fender options you might also consider the Fat 50's set. A bit more mids than those pickups you've mentioned but still plenty of squawk and spank. The middle coil is reverse-wound for hum cancellation in positions 2 & 4.

Arjay

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