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Post subject: Dimarzio Area Pickups. Neck or Middle?
Posted: Fri Sep 07, 2018 7:43 pm
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There have been many comments about the area pickups, mostly positive. I currently play a 2016 Standard SSH Shawbucker Strat, maple neck. I am looking for a little more output and " bite" than my current Fat 50's have. I love the Shawbucker bridge pup and will be keeping it. I have ordered Dimarzio pickups, an Area 58 and a 61, for neck and middle. I have seen many posts on these and sometimes the 58 goes in the neck, and sometimes the 61does. I play everything from pop/rock to blues and Classic Rock. No metal. I play mainly through a Mesa Boogie Express 50. 1 x12 speaker. I know they both have alot of treble, and the 61 is a higher output. What do you folks recommend, 58 in neck and 61 middle, or vice versa, and please explain why. I am not totally into the vintage " quacky" sound, but still want to stay single coil. Thanks so much.


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Post subject: Re: Dimarzio Area Pickups. Neck or Middle?
Posted: Sun Sep 09, 2018 8:01 am
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First a question. Are you going to install the pickups yourself, or are you going to have a tech install them?

If you're going to install them yourself, the obvious answer is to leave a little extra length on the wires so you can try it both ways.

We can tell you "conventional wisdom" (weakest pickup goes in neck position). We can tell you our own personal preferences (I generally like the neck pickup to be a little hotter than the middle).

But we don't have your ears. Or your rig. You're the only one who can answer which way sounds best to you.
---------------------
If you have to pay a tech to install them, you may not want to pay him to switch them (and then possibly pay him again to switch them back).

In that case, probably best to go with conventional wisdom. For most people most of the time, weakest in the neck works best.


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Post subject: Re: Dimarzio Area Pickups. Neck or Middle?
Posted: Sun Sep 09, 2018 9:23 am
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Thanks so much for your reply. I have a friend who does all my tech stuff. I will be paying him though to do it. ( less than most pros). However hoping not to have to pay twice!
I know this is very subjective, as all these things are. I really don't prefer an overly quacky / thin tone. I am almost at the point where I am thinking of trading the strat for a tele. I have rarely met a tele I don't like. I know teles can be sorta similar but they just sound " beefier"???
I would be happy to just get a nice warm, "clean" sound.
I do play the neck and bridge pretty much exclusively, rarely playing positions 2,3,4. Maybe because they are treblier. I am hoping the pup swap may cure this.
Since I do play the neck more would that influence the decision?
Why does the weaker pickup traditionally go in the neck?


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Post subject: Re: Dimarzio Area Pickups. Neck or Middle?
Posted: Sun Sep 09, 2018 10:42 am
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bluesguy996 wrote:
Why does the weaker pickup traditionally go in the neck?

The strings move more at the neck than they do at the bridge, so two pickups of equal output, the one at the neck will be louder than the one at the bridge.
The bridge pickup is more "trebley" and picks up higher harmonic overtones, so it is brighter and "cuts through", but it is not actually "louder"

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Post subject: Re: Dimarzio Area Pickups. Neck or Middle?
Posted: Sun Sep 09, 2018 4:50 pm
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Thanks Rich.
I am keeping the original bridge pickup so I am comparing only neck and middle. I assume same rules apply, which makes sense.
If I play mostly the neck would there be some merit to putting the stronger 61 there for more power and "bite"?


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Post subject: Re: Dimarzio Area Pickups. Neck or Middle?
Posted: Sun Sep 09, 2018 7:16 pm
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I have a 58 in my neck and a 61 in the middle. IMO, the 58 is more suited towards a lower output/bluesier sound w/ more emphasis towards the bottom end. While I never tried the 61 in the neck, I would assume its a little more mid to high end output maybe leaning towards classic rock land. Not to say it isn't bluesy, just more towards the mid high end.


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Post subject: Re: Dimarzio Area Pickups. Neck or Middle?
Posted: Sun Sep 09, 2018 7:57 pm
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Ok. Great.
I want to avoid too much high end. Love a "warm" neck sound.
What kind of music do you play? Do you great versatilty out of that setup?


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Post subject: Re: Dimarzio Area Pickups. Neck or Middle?
Posted: Sun Sep 09, 2018 7:59 pm
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I also wanted to ask about the caps. I saw some posts where the Dimarzio Areas might sound better with .022 caps??? (I think). Does that make much difference?


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Post subject: Re: Dimarzio Area Pickups. Neck or Middle?
Posted: Sun Sep 09, 2018 9:01 pm
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0.022 is a very common value for Strats.
It's kind of a happy medium.

I would say they make a noticeable difference.
Maybe not earth-shattering but noticeable.

As far as the pups go, traditional wisdom (as pointed out by strayedstrater) is usually the best advice.
Put your lower output pups closer to the neck and higher output pups closer to the bridge.
Not everyone follows that traditional wisdom but not following presents setup issues (if you're a setup stickler like I am) in that pickup height becomes less similar from pup to pup.
As you attempt to balance the outputs so that your switch positions are roughly equal in volume you'll find you have to lower the middle or raise the neck to counter the out of order outputs.
That's not always a bad thing.
There are pros and cons to higher and lower pickups and it depends on personal preference.
If that interests you, you might want to do some research on it.

I am very particular about pickup balance on my guitars.
I want good balance in volume from pup to pup and I also want balance from string to string.
Modern pups versus vintage style pups have some significant differences in string to string balance, largely due to the fact that wound G strings were the norm back in the day and solid (plain) Gs are the norm now.
I sometimes have one end of the pup higher or lower than the other end and that varies with each pup when trying to balance string volumes and also when trying to get the tone I want.
Pickup height affects tone as I alluded to earlier.
It can be an ongoing process until you get a feel for what works for your ears and what doesn't.
I have even removed pups completely out of the guitar to monkey with magnet "stick-out" using pliers.
That is a job for persons with a high degree of control over their hand-eye coordination as it pertains to strength and pressure since a little magnet movement can go a long way.
That doesn't mean it's an unapproachable task.
Just that you have to be careful.

On the Area Pups, I have run them and consider them to be the very best silent singles I've tried and if silence is the primary concern and first priority then they would be the best choice in my opinion.
I haven't tried every silent single ever made but I have tried all of the major ones.
Of those I've tried the Areas are by far the best, again, in my opinion.
Since that time I have reverted back to true single coils because even though the Areas were VERY good, they still lacked true single coil tone, primarily in dynamics.
That's coming from a self admitted tone snob, though.
You may not detect anything missing.

Sorry for the long winded post.
Some questions don't have a pat answer.

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Post subject: Re: Dimarzio Area Pickups. Neck or Middle?
Posted: Sun Sep 09, 2018 11:24 pm
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bluesguy996 wrote:
I want to avoid too much high end. Love a "warm" neck sound.


If a warm, loud, crunchy tone from the neck pickup is your cup of tea I'd recommend abandoning the Area pickups and install DiMarzio's Virtual Vintage Heavy Blues or Heavy Blues II instead. Its output is significantly higher than either the 58 or the 61, yielding a fat beefy vibe that's sure to please. Use the 58 or the 61 in the middle and you'll get some real nice spank in position 4. I find a PIO tone cap of .022 or .033 works best with these pickups.

Arjay

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Post subject: Re: Dimarzio Area Pickups. Neck or Middle?
Posted: Mon Sep 10, 2018 5:08 am
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No worries with the long post! It's all good. I think balance is important, I think I will go that route and put 58 in neck and 61 middle.
Arjay, I did have a long hard look at the two heavy blues pickups you mentioned and they sound great. I debated that choice quite alot and it was close. I decided on the 58/61 option to maintain a bit more clean and clarity. If the 58 doesn't work I will definitely be trying the heavy blues 2.
Thanks so much for all your help!


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Post subject: Re: Dimarzio Area Pickups. Neck or Middle?
Posted: Mon Sep 10, 2018 6:07 pm
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At least with you getting the 58 & 61, you can plug an play in either neck or middle spot. I think you'll like the Area pups if you haven't played them before.
And definitely try the Cap advice from Arjay, I changed from .047 to .022 after the switch to Area pups.


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Post subject: Re: Dimarzio Area Pickups. Neck or Middle?
Posted: Mon Sep 10, 2018 7:13 pm
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I will definitely consider the cap. Is it just the tone cap you switch out?
And do I switch both?
My bridge pickup is a shawbucker which runs off 500k pots vs 250 k for neck/middle. Does that change anything? Not sure if in position 2?? Sharing middle and bridge if that affects things? Sorry I am nowhere near a "techie". My tech guy may know.


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Post subject: Re: Dimarzio Area Pickups. Neck or Middle?
Posted: Mon Sep 10, 2018 7:29 pm
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When in doubt, take detailed pix of the wiring before desoldering the old pups and reassemble the same way as stock.
The caps can be added after.
Take note of the old pups, specifically which wire runs to the end of the coil and which runs to the start because not all pups use the same colours on the insulating sheath.
To see that you typically have to remove the plastic pup cover to see the windings.
You want to inspect the old pups this way and write down what you find for later reference when working with the Dimarzios.
The areas will be a four conductor arrangement because of double coils but they come with instructions for various configurations.
I think the typical way is to tie the black and white together (and insulate that connection) and use the green and red as the leads.
The instructions will tell you which is start and which is finish.
Then refer to your notes and the pix to begin connecting.

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Post subject: Re: Dimarzio Area Pickups. Neck or Middle?
Posted: Mon Sep 10, 2018 7:44 pm
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Good advice.
Still.... do I change BOTH tone caps?
Sorry if that's a dumb question.


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