It is currently Mon Mar 16, 2020 2:39 pm

All times are UTC - 7 hours



Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 47 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next
Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next
Author Message
Post subject: Re: Suggest a luthier please?
Posted: Fri Aug 03, 2018 10:56 am
Offline
Hobbyist
Hobbyist

Joined: Mon May 18, 2015 10:07 pm
Posts: 86
strayedstrater wrote:
Regarding Authorized Service Centers:

There are 3 levels, Silver, Gold, and Platinum. The requirements to become a Silver level aren't very stringent.

And you're correct that even a Platinum level in a small market might never have worked on a scalloped neck.

Interesting. I didn’t consider that scalloped necks might be as uncommonly worked on as may be the case. But I guess yeah, they must represent a small fraction subtype of all the guitars sold.


Top
Profile
Fender Play Winter Sale 2020
Post subject: Re: Suggest a luthier please?
Posted: Fri Aug 03, 2018 12:42 pm
Offline
Rock Star
Rock Star

Joined: Tue Jul 17, 2007 1:53 am
Posts: 4241
I've been reading the topic with interest, especially about the bi-flex or not and price estimate parts.

But one thing to consider & check: authorized Fender services can sometimes go beyond what's openly & generally on the menu (e.g. the Dlx Roadhouse Strat PCB/rotary switch is not available for sale separately, but can be ordered via the F-Services). Contact the local authorized service shops and check if it's possible to order a new, bulleted YJM neck for your guitar from Fender.
If possible/available, that would be absolutely w-a-y below those 2K estimates.
And then there's the stratosphereparts.com - they have had brand new YJM necks for about 700$ plus shipping.

Hang ten. :wink:


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: Suggest a luthier please?
Posted: Fri Aug 03, 2018 3:54 pm
Offline
Hobbyist
Hobbyist

Joined: Mon May 18, 2015 10:07 pm
Posts: 86
jmattis wrote:
I've been reading the topic with interest, especially about the bi-flex or not and price estimate parts.

But one thing to consider & check: authorized Fender services can sometimes go beyond what's openly & generally on the menu (e.g. the Dlx Roadhouse Strat PCB/rotary switch is not available for sale separately, but can be ordered via the F-Services). Contact the local authorized service shops and check if it's possible to order a new, bulleted YJM neck for your guitar from Fender.
If possible/available, that would be absolutely w-a-y below those 2K estimates.
And then there's the stratosphereparts.com - they have had brand new YJM necks for about 700$ plus shipping.

Hang ten. :wink:

‘Hang ten’ :lol:
Thanks for the link and info. Yeah it’s true... I’m just operating off an assumption. I will definitely at least call the local places and have them weight in. A new neck is always an option. I can say for sure I will just play this one down to the wood and then retire it before spending 2+ K $ on a bullet and refret ! Sheesh!


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: Suggest a luthier please?
Posted: Sat Aug 04, 2018 11:01 am
Offline
Rock Star
Rock Star

Joined: Tue Jul 17, 2007 1:53 am
Posts: 4241
JakTors wrote:
I can say for sure I will just play this one down to the wood and then retire it before spending 2+ K $ on a bullet and refret ! Sheesh!

That 'play down to the wood' is well in line with the traditional 'don't fix it if it ain't broke', which I find very wise. Maybe the recrown/reshape/polish job at some point as suggested before, and even the refret is within affordable/sensible.
IMHO, forget about the bullet until you get a new neck; YJM of different eras has been playing all kinds of guitars, so any YJM Signature Strat is authentic enough for the mojo transfer, and menehune will have added some of their extras by now. :wink:

[A side note: The 2K+ estimate might be because the luthier in question really answered to the price request about a full refret (let's say 350-400; a scalloped fretboard ain't easy with increased chipping risk, and yet on maple a sure refin) in combination with a complete truss rod job, where a bi-flex would be exchanged for a 70's bullet one-way rod - which is in fact rebuilding the whole neck, with extra work for the disassembly.]


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: Suggest a luthier please?
Posted: Mon Aug 06, 2018 11:42 am
Offline
Hobbyist
Hobbyist

Joined: Mon May 18, 2015 10:07 pm
Posts: 86
jmattis wrote:
JakTors wrote:
I can say for sure I will just play this one down to the wood and then retire it before spending 2+ K $ on a bullet and refret ! Sheesh!

That 'play down to the wood' is well in line with the traditional 'don't fix it if it ain't broke', which I find very wise. Maybe the recrown/reshape/polish job at some point as suggested before, and even the refret is within affordable/sensible.
IMHO, forget about the bullet until you get a new neck; YJM of different eras has been playing all kinds of guitars, so any YJM Signature Strat is authentic enough for the mojo transfer, and menehune will have added some of their extras by now. :wink:

[A side note: The 2K+ estimate might be because the luthier in question really answered to the price request about a full refret (let's say 350-400; a scalloped fretboard ain't easy with increased chipping risk, and yet on maple a sure refin) in combination with a complete truss rod job, where a bi-flex would be exchanged for a 70's bullet one-way rod - which is in fact rebuilding the whole neck, with extra work for the disassembly.]


Too bad the menehune don’t build me a whole new neck over night as they are known to do! It’s just a guitar neck, not a massive ditch system already ! :evil:

Yeah the nut’s not broke (yet), but the neck is so beautiful I’d love to get me some gleaming jumbo frets on her. But I hear you.

Though I never heard back from him after asking to clarify, I did reiterate it was just the nut that needed to be replaced; not the whole rod. I knew scalloped would factor in the price but nothing accounted for the 2-25k. Who knows.

Fyi, as I expected, all the yjm’s had the vintage, one way truss rod.

I should get some pics up here soon enough. :D


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: Suggest a luthier please?
Posted: Tue Aug 07, 2018 10:50 am
Offline
Hobbyist
Hobbyist

Joined: Mon May 18, 2015 10:07 pm
Posts: 86
stratele52 wrote:
See Dan Erlwine, always on Stew mac videos

http://www.danerlewine.com/index.html

Hey just curious, is dan Erlewine related to Mark Erlewine? Mark is one the the three ‘legendary luthiers’ mentioned in that reverb article.


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: Suggest a luthier please?
Posted: Tue Aug 07, 2018 11:44 am
Offline
Hobbyist
Hobbyist

Joined: Mon May 18, 2015 10:07 pm
Posts: 86
I was trying to find the post of the person who requested pics so I could quote them with the link to the pics on Flickr, but I can’t find it. Thought there were two actually. We’re losts deleted?
Anyways, here’s a couple of links. Did it via the ‘IMG’ and ‘URL’ functions in the menu cause I wasn’t sure which to use. I also pasted the flicker links. So there’s be duplicates though I only took two images. Image
Image

https://flic.kr/p/MLDhaq
https://flic.kr/p/MLDgGb

https://flic.kr/p/MLDhaq

https://flic.kr/p/MLDgGb


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: Suggest a luthier please?
Posted: Tue Aug 07, 2018 1:09 pm
Offline
Rock Star
Rock Star

Joined: Tue Jul 17, 2007 1:53 am
Posts: 4241
Dan and Mark Erlewine are cousins - Mark started as Dan's apprentice, later partner.

On the pic posting: you need the pic address (starts with http:// or https://, ends with .jpg). Then you can copy/paste it to your forum post, and use the IMG-command to make it visible straight on the forum - preview button is a handy tool. Many of the forum members don't click on outside links - and pics on the forum is also the more polite way when asking help.
(I would have shown an example of your pics, but "the owner has disabled downloading" on flickr...)


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: Suggest a luthier please?
Posted: Tue Aug 07, 2018 6:32 pm
Offline
Professional Musician
Professional Musician
User avatar

Joined: Tue Feb 13, 2018 10:28 pm
Posts: 1594
Location: SoCal, US
That neck has seen some serious lovin'!

_________________
-- Rich


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: Suggest a luthier please?
Posted: Wed Aug 08, 2018 11:42 am
Offline
Professional Musician
Professional Musician

Joined: Wed Aug 26, 2009 4:50 pm
Posts: 1339
Location: Denver, CO, USA
Interesting that it's not a Bi-Flex.

They did the single-action rod with hollow-walnut cylinder on the Highway One/American Special series, to give them the look of the higher-end models but still reserve the functionality as a selling point for the higher-end models.

Very surprising they'd do that on a premium model that sold for more than the American Standard.

The only thing that differentiates your rod from a Bi-Flex is a $3 anchor/sleeve hidden under the 7th fret inlay. (Also costs a little in labor to install it during production.)

On a Bi-Flex, that anchor keeps the rod from pushing against the skunk stripe when you unscrew the adjuster far enough to hit the walnut plug (which flexs the rod backwards of normal, forcing more relief into the neck).
-----------------
Not to beat a dead horse, but what's your source that it's not a Bi-Flex, and are you sure that you understood the source? Perhaps the source said it's a single rod, not a double rod?

Many people are under the misapprehension that the Bi-Flex is a double-rod system, like other trusses than can both increase or decrease relief.

The Bi-Flex is a single rod like traditional single-action rods. When used to decrease relief it functions exactly like a traditional rod, by applying compression between the fixed anchor at one end and the adjuster nut at the other end. What makes it double-action is the 7th fret anchor/sleeve and the walnut plug, which allows it to push against the two ends when you unscrew the adjuster.

Double-rods aren't anchored at either end and never apply compression to the neck. One rod is fixed length and the other adjustable. So when you adjust it, the pair of rods bow either up or down, and it applies up or down force to the neck along its whole length.

(Some "double rod" systems use a fixed length U channel rather than 2 cylindrical rods, but the principle is the same.)


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: Suggest a luthier please?
Posted: Wed Aug 08, 2018 5:15 pm
Offline
Hobbyist
Hobbyist

Joined: Mon May 18, 2015 10:07 pm
Posts: 86
CB91710 wrote:
That neck has seen some serious lovin'!

You KNOW it ! :mrgreen:


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: Suggest a luthier please?
Posted: Wed Aug 08, 2018 5:26 pm
Offline
Hobbyist
Hobbyist

Joined: Mon May 18, 2015 10:07 pm
Posts: 86
jmattis wrote:
Dan and Mark Erlewine are cousins - Mark started as Dan's apprentice, later partner.

On the pic posting: you need the pic address (starts with http:// or https://, ends with .jpg). Then you can copy/paste it to your forum post, and use the IMG-command to make it visible straight on the forum - preview button is a handy tool. Many of the forum members don't click on outside links - and pics on the forum is also the more polite way when asking help.
(I would have shown an example of your pics, but "the owner has disabled downloading" on flickr...)


Crap. Last time I posted the same way it worked. Don’t know what happened this time. I’m using flicker on my iPhone. After uploading th pic you tap it and select share and then copy public link. That link doesn’t end in .jpg. But I paste it in the reply. Worked last time. I pasted the link tetween the two [IMG][IMG] in brackets. Is that not how to use the img command? I don’t know how otherwise. I also don’t see the preview button. And I don’t see a link to an explanation of how to post images.
I’ll work on it.
Thanks.


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: Suggest a luthier please?
Posted: Wed Aug 08, 2018 5:40 pm
Offline
Hobbyist
Hobbyist

Joined: Mon May 18, 2015 10:07 pm
Posts: 86
strayedstrater wrote:
Interesting that it's not a Bi-Flex.

They did the single-action rod with hollow-walnut cylinder on the Highway One/American Special series, to give them the look of the higher-end models but still reserve the functionality as a selling point for the higher-end models.

Very surprising they'd do that on a premium model that sold for more than the American Standard.

The only thing that differentiates your rod from a Bi-Flex is a $3 anchor/sleeve hidden under the 7th fret inlay. (Also costs a little in labor to install it during production.)

On a Bi-Flex, that anchor keeps the rod from pushing against the skunk stripe when you unscrew the adjuster far enough to hit the walnut plug (which flexs the rod backwards of normal, forcing more relief into the neck).
-----------------
Not to beat a dead horse, but what's your source that it's not a Bi-Flex, and are you sure that you understood the source? Perhaps the source said it's a single rod, not a double rod?

Many people are under the misapprehension that the Bi-Flex is a double-rod system, like other trusses than can both increase or decrease relief.

The Bi-Flex is a single rod like traditional single-action rods. When used to decrease relief it functions exactly like a traditional rod, by applying compression between the fixed anchor at one end and the adjuster nut at the other end. What makes it double-action is the 7th fret anchor/sleeve and the walnut plug, which allows it to push against the two ends when you unscrew the adjuster.

Double-rods aren't anchored at either end and never apply compression to the neck. One rod is fixed length and the other adjustable. So when you adjust it, the pair of rods bow either up or down, and it applies up or down force to the neck along its whole length.

(Some "double rod" systems use a fixed length U channel rather than 2 cylindrical rods, but the principle is the same.)


Holy crap I learned more about truss rods from that one post than in all my combined instances of looking up systems for various reasons over the years. I’ve only physically seen ‘standard’ run of the mill roda as on old strats, and only read about biflex’s, so I could easily be misinterpreting what I’m reading. I have no luck finding first degree source material like exploded parts schematics from Fender. I don’t know if they exist publically. But that would settle it. My sources are ‘apparently’ reliable online sources but not from the sources mouth. Your logic makes sense; about it being likely a biflex, so I could be wrong. I’ll try emailing Fender. There are three versions of the yjm with three different trusses, as far as they appear externally. I can’t find a schematic on any of them.

Tell me, is a bullet type likely to be biflex as well? Or no because there is no plug upon which the nut can act as the nut is backed off the rod? Or is that not right? I ask cause the first gen yjm has the nut in the heel; the second in the headstock with the walnut plug; and the third in the headstock with the bullet. :!:
Thanks for that info !


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: Suggest a luthier please?
Posted: Wed Aug 08, 2018 10:02 pm
Offline
Professional Musician
Professional Musician

Joined: Wed Aug 26, 2009 4:50 pm
Posts: 1339
Location: Denver, CO, USA
Fender's Bullets and heel-adjusts aren't Bi-Flex. (Nor MIMs or Squiers with headstock adjust but a big access hole the same diameter as the adjuster nut.)

As you surmised, the Bi-Flex needs the walnut plug to push against in order to increase the relief.
-------------------
Warmoth's double-rod system does adjust at the heel. And it would be possible to design a double-rod with a Bullet adjuster poking out of the headstock.

And Fender could make a heel-adjust Bi-Flex if they wanted to, with the hollow walnut plug at the heel. (But nobody who buys vintage-spec heel-adjust Fenders is likely to want a modern rod like the Bi-Flex, and people who want a Bi-Flex want the ease of headstock adjust.)
--------------------
Warmoth's heel-adjust double-rod almost never needs adjustment unless you change string gauge. Seasonal expansion/contraction of the neck due to humidity has little to no effect on relief, because the wood simply slips/slides over the rods since they aren't anchored to the wood at both ends like a single-rod.

The trade-off is the double-rod weighs twice as much as a single-rod, altering the resonance of the neck. The lack of compression also alters the resonance. They claim the double-rod increases sustain.

(Warmoth also offers traditional single-rods.)
-------------------
Rickenbacker uses a dual-rod system, which is different than a double-rod. Their rods are side by side and don't pull/push against each other. They're both single-action compression rods that let you set the relief on the treble and bass sides of the neck independently. That lets you correct twists in the neck.


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: Suggest a luthier please?
Posted: Thu Aug 09, 2018 12:17 am
Offline
Professional Musician
Professional Musician

Joined: Wed Aug 26, 2009 4:50 pm
Posts: 1339
Location: Denver, CO, USA
Converting a Bi-Flex (or a HWY1/Am Spec walnut plug single-action) rod is theoretically simple and easy.

All of the Fender USA rods have 10-32 threads, so the various adjuster nuts will screw on.

The potential problems are depth/length and the outside diameter of the nuts.

After looking at the walnut plugs and various nuts on the Guitar Parts Resource site and pondering a bit, I suspect a Bullet adjuster would be deeply recessed on your neck (Bi-Flex or not). It would function fine but it wouldn't look right. You could stack washers under the nut to get it to stick out proud as it should, but you'd only have a few threads in contact with the rod -- high risk of stripping the rod and ruining it.

The other even more serious possible problem is the outside diameter of the nuts. If the Bullet is larger diameter than the existing nut you'd have to enlarge the hole in the head. But the truss rod extends into that hole -- you couldn't simply run a drill bit into the hole. A router wouldn't fit. You might possibly be able to use a flex shaft with a Dremel/Foredom, but you'd have to freehand it.

The other option would be to remove the rod, drill the hole, and reinstall the rod. But that would be a massive job -- harder than taking the neck off a Les Paul.

I can't find dimensions for the nuts. They look the same, but just the chrome plating on a Bullet might be enough to make it a little too big.
-----------------------
A Bullet would be much more proper for a YJM and I can't imagine what they were thinking when they designed that version.

But I gather you've foregone the idea of replacing the adjuster simply for cosmetics, and with the unknowns that's the correct decision.


Top
Profile
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 47 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next
Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next

All times are UTC - 7 hours

Fender Play Winter Sale 2020

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to: