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Post subject: Replacement Tuners on 1970's Stratocaster
Posted: Mon Jul 16, 2018 10:47 am
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Does anyone know if the repro tuners from Fender fit the vintage 70's or just the reissue Stratocasters?

Just bought one with the wrong tuners and want to make it closer to the original specs.

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Post subject: Re: Replacement Tuners on 1970's Stratocaster
Posted: Mon Jul 16, 2018 11:33 am
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I have heard -- anecdotally -- that the bushings supplied with the repro "F" tuners are too small to fit the holes in a vintage guitar's headstock. The O.D. is apparently larger on the original bushings.

Arjay

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Post subject: Re: Replacement Tuners on 1970's Stratocaster
Posted: Mon Jul 16, 2018 7:13 pm
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I have heard that as well.
Now, will the pegs fit the vintage bushings? I don't know.

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Post subject: Re: Replacement Tuners on 1970's Stratocaster
Posted: Mon Jul 16, 2018 10:03 pm
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:facepalm:
Aaaaaand I didn't think to measure the ID of the hole in the headstock before I put that neck away.

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Post subject: Re: Replacement Tuners on 1970's Stratocaster
Posted: Tue Jul 17, 2018 2:33 am
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The current Fender 70s 'F' tuners are made by Ping. Some say not very well.
The original 'F' tuners from around the early to mid 70s were, afaik, Fender manufacture and were flat backed. From the mid 70s to sometime in the recent past Schaller made them for Fender. The Schaller version had a collar/bush at the rear of the tuner that fits inside the headstock hole. Ping attemped to copy the Schallers and use a similar design with the collar.

Schaller still make them only not with 'F' but 'S' on the back.

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Post subject: Re: Replacement Tuners on 1970's Stratocaster
Posted: Tue Jul 17, 2018 2:58 am
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64Galaxie wrote:
The original 'F' tuners from around the early to mid 70s were, afaik, Fender manufacture and were flat backed.


Actually the Fender-made "F" tuners were introduced late in 1966, the result of Kluson not being able to accommodate the burgeoning demands imposed by CBS for increased production. IIRC Forrest White personally designed them and they were available with either metal or plastic buttons.

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Post subject: Re: Replacement Tuners on 1970's Stratocaster
Posted: Tue Jul 17, 2018 12:02 pm
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So what do you think these are?

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Post subject: Re: Replacement Tuners on 1970's Stratocaster
Posted: Tue Jul 17, 2018 12:36 pm
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Aftermarket Schaller's.

Arjay

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Post subject: Re: Replacement Tuners on 1970's Stratocaster
Posted: Tue Jul 17, 2018 5:04 pm
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Retroverbial wrote:
Aftermarket Schaller's.

Arjay


Lol.

Yes, I know. I should elaborate more.

Seems to be after market bushings installed.

Wonder if the 70’s style will fit?

I checked with Kluson.. they have a locking 70’s style tuner, but it won’t fit on a 70’s Strat, only reissues.

The Schallers on here are really hard to tune, they really need to go.

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Post subject: Re: Replacement Tuners on 1970's Stratocaster
Posted: Tue Jul 17, 2018 6:36 pm
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If the current vintage tuner bushings are too small, you could shim them with some copper shielding tape to make up the difference.
The "engineer's way" would be to plug the headstock and re-drill to 10mm ;)

I just measured mine to get the missing measurements:
Tuner "sleeve" 9.55mm, 0.375", 3/8"
Headstock bore 10mm,0.393" 25/64" (wiggling between 25/64" and 51/128"

So the current "Vintage" bushings are sized to fit a 10mm bore.

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Post subject: Re: Replacement Tuners on 1970's Stratocaster
Posted: Wed Jul 18, 2018 1:13 am
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DetroitBlues wrote:
So what do you think these are?

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Possibly Schaller M6-180

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Post subject: Re: Replacement Tuners on 1970's Stratocaster
Posted: Wed Jul 18, 2018 1:34 am
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https://www.angela.com/fender70sftunersoneset.aspx
May help with dimensions :D


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Post subject: Re: Replacement Tuners on 1970's Stratocaster
Posted: Wed Jul 18, 2018 9:57 am
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DetroitBlues wrote:
The Schallers on here are really hard to tune, they really need to go.


In what way are they hard to tune?

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Post subject: Re: Replacement Tuners on 1970's Stratocaster
Posted: Wed Jul 18, 2018 10:28 am
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stratmangler wrote:
DetroitBlues wrote:
The Schallers on here are really hard to tune, they really need to go.


In what way are they hard to tune?


the gear ratio is bad, I can go from flat to sharp barely turning the tuner. But, they are also just hard to move in general; way more to harder to physically turn over any other I've used.

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Post subject: Re: Replacement Tuners on 1970's Stratocaster
Posted: Wed Jul 18, 2018 10:54 am
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DetroitBlues wrote:
stratmangler wrote:
DetroitBlues wrote:
The Schallers on here are really hard to tune, they really need to go.


In what way are they hard to tune?


the gear ratio is bad, I can go from flat to sharp barely turning the tuner. But, they are also just hard to move in general; way more to harder to physically turn over any other I've used.


Have you tried adjusting the screws on the knobs? Besides simply holding the knobs on the shafts, they also adjust the tension of the tuners. It's possible to overtighten those screws to the point that the knobs won't turn at all.

Schallers have high gear ratios and should only need a light touch to turn. They should be smooth and precise. If the screws are overtightened enough to make the knobs hard to turn, the force required to turn them may be tricking you into thinking they have a bad ratio.

I suppose it's possible the grease has hardened up. Or maybe the gears have worn out and the screws have been overtightened to take out the slop.

Overtightening increases gear wear -- it's possible over the years a vicious cycle of repeatedly overtightening to remove slop caused by overtightening has trashed them. But the first thing to try is to loosen the screws a touch.

Back in the '70s and '80s those Schallers were the premier tuners. Way better than Grovers. Unless they're damaged or worn they should still be as good or better than any current tuners.


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