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Post subject: Truss rod problem (broken?)
Posted: Fri Jul 13, 2018 10:01 am
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Hello
During last year I've made this type of thread numerous times so I'll just cut to the chase.
Mexican standard strat, maple neck. Bought it from a guy with heavy strings (.12), and when I put lighter strings (.11) and tried to adjust the truss rod, the nut came off (so the neck didn't have enough default bow), thus it gives me string buzz.

Since a replacement neck for this type of guitar, with this type of finish (two different finishes on the back and front) is way too expensive for my needs, is there any possible way I could fix this truss rod? Tightening it works, mind you.

I've tried heat bending the neck but after a while it goes back to its straight position.
Should I file the frets? I've got the tools necessary, but the middle frets stick out a bit and I can't tell if it's them or it's from the neck bowing backwards.
I've even thought of taking the truss rod out by stripping the middle wood hiding it in the back and fixing it or putting a new one but that sounds like a disaster waiting to happen.


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Post subject: Re: Truss rod problem (broken?)
Posted: Fri Jul 13, 2018 11:11 pm
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"Straight" with the strings off is good.
The way to tell is to get a straightedge that is notched to clear the frets. They aren't expensive on Amazon, you can get them flat on one side (for checking frets) and notched on the other... or you can get them notched to two different scale lengths.
If you have completely removed the truss rod nut, then your problem is not that the truss rod is broken... with the nut removed, it's not doing anything.
Leave the nut off and string up the guitar, tune it to pitch, and set it aside for a few weeks.

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Post subject: Re: Truss rod problem (broken?)
Posted: Fri Jul 13, 2018 11:14 pm
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I remember this thread under a different name?
If this is true put 12 gauge strings back on and report back with pics :D


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Post subject: Re: Truss rod problem (broken?)
Posted: Fri Jul 13, 2018 11:48 pm
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Hi & welcome to the forum.

Since you mention those 'earlier threads', I did a little googling and found this: https://www.thegearpage.net/board/index ... k.1913426/

Basically, the to-do list is there. And after that check list is done, I believe the problem is not in the truss rod. It's a one-way rod, so it does not give you more relief than what the string pull forces in the neck. The 'no-relief even with .012's' may be why the previous owner sold the guitar...

So, back to basics. If the buzz has been reliably diagnosed as the typical too-little-relief/back-bow buzz (Buzzes when played on frets ~1-6 but goes away on higher frets.); and you've tried the heavier (.012) strings; and the heat bending doesn't stay, you basically have only two options. Get a new neck, or get a fret job.
The latter could be just a partial shave/recrown/polish job on the middle frets, or it could be a full refret with fretboard reshaping. Evaluating what the guitar needs is impossible via the internet.

BTW, how much is the relief now (Fender style measure = capo on first, press on last fret, measure the gap on eight fret), with the .011 set in standard tuning?


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Post subject: Re: Truss rod problem (broken?)
Posted: Sat Jul 14, 2018 12:31 am
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Yeah I see in that thread heavy gauge strings were tried.
Seek pro advice and if required
Replace the neck. :D


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Post subject: Re: Truss rod problem (broken?)
Posted: Sat Jul 14, 2018 12:40 am
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Thank you very much to every one that replied. I will return with information after I proceed with this.


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Post subject: Re: Truss rod problem (broken?)
Posted: Sat Jul 14, 2018 1:54 am
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Hey, wait! You didn't answer the question about the relief now..?

Now, I'm not doubting your skills in any way, but since I like little/no relief myself, I'll give a little chance that the buzzing is not relief related at all - that's why the question. (IMHO, a well set up guitar plays just fine with a straight neck and moderate pick hand force.)


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Post subject: Re: Truss rod problem (broken?)
Posted: Sat Jul 14, 2018 5:18 am
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Quote:
(IMHO, a well set up guitar plays just fine with a straight neck and moderate pick hand force
Yes, tend to agree with that, JM. As long as there's SOME gap at the 8th, that'll do. Doesn't need to be as much as recommended.

And since I've been having mine professionally set up, that's how the tech's done it too.

Cheers - Peter.


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Post subject: Re: Truss rod problem (broken?)
Posted: Sun Jul 15, 2018 1:59 am
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Sorry for not providing enough information. I just did some measurements.
Also, I've installed a .9 gauge set of strings as an experiment.
The only thing is the measurements are metric, so if you're American I have no idea what they mean in inches and quarter inches etc. I've only measured the low E for reference for now. (to be clear, here, measurement = space between fret and string)

Low E at 12th fret: 2.1 mm
Low E at 1st fret: 1.1 mm
Using the Fender measuring technique, at the 8th fret: 0.2 mm


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Post subject: Re: Truss rod problem (broken?)
Posted: Sun Jul 15, 2018 11:30 am
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Should be about 1.6mm at the 12th-15th.
If you press down at the 1st fret and 20th fret, is there any gap at the 8th fret?

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Post subject: Re: Truss rod problem (broken?)
Posted: Sun Jul 15, 2018 11:32 pm
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Mexer wrote:
Low E at 12th fret: 2.1 mm
Low E at 1st fret: 1.1 mm
Using the Fender measuring technique, at the 8th fret: 0.2 mm

Ok. Now, this is only guesswork via internet, so proceed with caution, but something here might help.

If you're trying to get more relief into the neck, the .009" set doesn't help.

On your numbers:
The 12th fret measure (2,1mm or roughly 5/64") would probably translate to about 2,4mm (1/8") on the 17th fret (again, 17th fret string height = a Fender style measuring - not trying to be picky, but thus we speak of the same thing).
The relief, 0,2mm = roughly .008".

Those measures are nothing alarming, but I set up my own 9.5" radiused Strats with a lower string height and smaller relief, buzz free. And if you get that 0,2mm/.008" relief with the .009 string set, you should get a lot more with a .011" or a .012" gauge.
Thus, I'm still not convinced the neck curve is the cause for the buzzing...

Would you describe the buzz a bit more. Where does it buzz; open strings/first frets/middle-of-the-neck area/highest frets/all over? Buzzing all the time or only with big bends? Is the buzz audible when amplified or just when you play unplugged?


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Post subject: Re: Truss rod problem (broken?)
Posted: Sun Jul 15, 2018 11:34 pm
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CB91710 wrote:
Should be about 1.6mm at the 12th-15th.
If you press down at the 1st fret and 20th fret, is there any gap at the 8th fret?

Yes, about 0.4 mm.
Next week I'm replacing the nut since I'm fearing the previous strings screwed up the dents/ holes, making them too big or deep. I hope that will help a bit.


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Post subject: Re: Truss rod problem (broken?)
Posted: Mon Jul 16, 2018 1:23 am
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Now I'm getting totally confused - from the part I quoted from your post, I understood the relief (= gap @8th fret when pressed at the first & last fret) to be 0,2 mm, now it's 0,4 mm...

The latter number is BIG. SRV had about 0,3 mm, and nobody needs more relief than he did...


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Post subject: Re: Truss rod problem (broken?)
Posted: Mon Jul 16, 2018 5:19 am
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Mexer wrote:
CB91710 wrote:
Should be about 1.6mm at the 12th-15th.
If you press down at the 1st fret and 20th fret, is there any gap at the 8th fret?

Yes, about 0.4 mm.
Next week I'm replacing the nut since I'm fearing the previous strings screwed up the dents/ holes, making them too big or deep. I hope that will help a bit.

If you have a gap in the middle of the neck when using a string as a straight-edge, then you do not have a problem with excessive back-bow. The truss rod is NOT too tight.
0.4mm is not bad, but it is slightly excessive and could/should be reduced, but for now, complete the setup and see if there is any fret buzz.
It may be a problem of your neck angle, rather than the truss rod adjustment.

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