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Post subject: Floating Tremolo
Posted: Sat Jun 09, 2018 4:58 am
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I've been looking into adjusting the tremolo to float on my Strat. I've never performed the procedure before, but I'm sure I'll figure it out...especially when there are probably 30+ tutorials on YouTube.

My question is about a Fender product I noticed online called the "Genuine Fender Hipshot Tremsetter Strat Guitar Stabilization." The description says it keeps the guitar in tune after heavy bends/whammy bar action, as well as always returning the tremolo to it's exact "zero" neutral position.

Has anyone used this Tresetter? How do you like it? Does it really make that big of a difference?

Thanks.


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Post subject: Re: Floating Tremolo
Posted: Sat Jun 09, 2018 7:29 am
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My opinion...looks like a $45 gimmick to me. I floated my tremolo on my 2015 MIM Strat without this kit, and it stays in tune, and "returns to zero" on it's own. I'll admit I don't "viciously" dive-bomb...but I can go all the way down, and all the way up with no tuning issues.
Buy one if you want---I'll keep my money.


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Post subject: Re: Floating Tremolo
Posted: Sat Jun 09, 2018 12:21 pm
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It's basic physics... if the bridge is floating, then the string tension is balanced by the springs. If the string tension or spring tension changes, the balance point will change in favor of the heavier tension and the guitar goes out of tune.

There really is no difference between "decking" your bridge plate and these "stabilization" devices.
Basically, they block the "up" movement at your determined position, which allows you to set the bridge plate correctly (elevated but level for a 2-pivot Strat, or 1/8" gap at the rear on a vintage style Strat).
You can still push the trem to dive, but you can't pull up. This does eliminate some of the usefulness... functions that players will tend to use more as they progress in skill.
So no... using one will not give you a true floating bridge.

They do NOT solve tuning problems that happen because of string movement/friction through the nut or loosening of the wrap on the tuner... if you dive-bomb a stock Strat with non-locking tuners it's still going to come back up sharp.

IMHO, there is no real use for them on a Strat bridge. They are useful on a Floyd Rose that doesn't look right and/or can't be properly set up (string height, etc...) with the bridge "decked". The Strat saddles have enough height adjustment to compensate for the change in bridge plate height when "decked"

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Post subject: Re: Floating Tremolo
Posted: Sat Jun 09, 2018 6:56 pm
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CB91710 wrote:
There really is no difference between "decking" your bridge plate and these "stabilization" devices.
Basically, they block the "up" movement at your determined position, which allows you to set the bridge plate correctly (elevated but level for a 2-pivot Strat, or 1/8" gap at the rear on a vintage style Strat).
You can still push the trem to dive, but you can't pull up. This does eliminate some of the usefulness... functions that players will tend to use more as they progress in skill.
So no... using one will not give you a true floating bridge.


So you can't pull the bar up with this gadget installed? Their whole selling point is that you can pull/push the bar as hard as you want without any tuning issues. What a load of $@!&!

Also, what's a "decked" bridge?

CB91710 wrote:
They do NOT solve tuning problems that happen because of string movement/friction through the nut or loosening of the wrap on the tuner... if you dive-bomb a stock Strat with non-locking tuners it's still going to come back up sharp.


I'm not too familiar with locking tuners. Is the idea that since there are no tuning screws on the Strat's bridge you lock them while playing and unlock when tuning?


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Post subject: Re: Floating Tremolo
Posted: Sat Jun 09, 2018 7:49 pm
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A "decked" bridge is one that is pulled tight to the body by the trem springs.
It's not bad on a standard Strat bridge, and many professional artists do it, but it doesn't work well for a Floyd.

Locking tuners are an alternative to a locking nut like on a Floyd. Rather than have the string wind around the tuner post several times, it just goes through a hole in the middle of the tuner and you tighten a thumbscrew on the back of the headstock, securing the string. It is then tuned to pitch with generally less than 1 turn.

With a properly cut and lubricated nut, they are just as stable for tuning as a locking nut, but they don't look like a piece of military hardware out on your neck, and they don't require micro-tuners on the bridge like the Floyd.

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Post subject: Re: Floating Tremolo
Posted: Sat Jun 09, 2018 7:51 pm
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Locking tuners are also useful on non-tremolo guitars.
They really speed up string changes.

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Post subject: Re: Floating Tremolo
Posted: Sat Jun 09, 2018 8:15 pm
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Post subject: Re: Floating Tremolo
Posted: Sun Jun 10, 2018 12:05 am
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CB91710 wrote:
You can still push the trem to dive, but you can't pull up.

Let's get the facts straight, the Hipshot Tremsetter does work both ways.
(And while at it, it's not actually a Fender product; https://hipshotproducts.com/ )

That said, I agree that these devices (any brand) are not essential to get a stabile Strat trem.
Fender seems to sort of agree; they used to have it factory installed in many Strat Plus/Plus Deluxe/Ultras, but not in production models after those. (And a lot of those Plus/Dlx/Ultras have had the Tremsetter removed by the owners.)
Then again, e.g. Steve Vai has trem stabilizers installed, so go figure...

One thing to note here; a Strat trem isn't designed for heavy whammy uses.

On the slanted trem claw setup, doesn't the trem plate/trem posts combination level out any possible tension differences between high&low side strings and springs?


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Post subject: Re: Floating Tremolo
Posted: Sun Jun 10, 2018 5:15 am
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I'm not sure what you mean by that but I can tell you that my tuning stability improves when I angle the claw.
As far as the intervals go, that's a matter of choice but when done properly it does seem to be musically useful.

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Post subject: Re: Floating Tremolo
Posted: Sun Jun 10, 2018 11:00 am
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I'd assume setting the trem movement by intervals has no effect on tuning stability. Some do it like that, some by Fender specs, some with maximum push/pull...

I've tried the slanted trem claw method, but found no advantages to the 'regular' way.
And my question was because I'm not qualified enough with physics to either confirm or deny the idea behind the slanted claw...
It's true that EAD strings have more tension than GBE on any given string set, but it would seem to me that the difference balances out where the trem plate is pulled against the trem posts.
Anyways, this setup style hasn't become the branch standard among Strat players/techs/luthiers, and I've not yet seen an FMIC Strat sent from the factory like that - from Squiers to CS Masterbuilts.

What I'm saying is, if it works for you, fine.
But I don't see it as a general cure for trem tuning stability issues.


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Post subject: Re: Floating Tremolo
Posted: Sun Jun 10, 2018 11:55 am
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jmattis wrote:
I'd assume setting the trem movement by intervals has no effect on tuning stability. Some do it like that, some by Fender specs, some with maximum push/pull...

Ya, it may have an impact on the ability to properly set up the trem by intervals, but the basic physics dictate that the tuning stability itself is a function of the stability of the two anchor points of the string, and friction at the nut and saddles... with stability at the nut/tuners being the most influential due to the greater room for movement.

A "gadget" may ensure that the bridge plate returns to the same position, but it can't guarantee that the string has not slipped on the tuner, or "stuck" at a different tension in the nut.

My '78 Strat (we all remember what band made its debut in '78) wasn't horrible... it would go sharp on the E and A after a dive-bomb, but a quick "yank" up on the bar would put it back in tune. All I did was scrape some pencil lead into the nut slots, loosened the string tree to reduce the nut break angle, and did the 1-above/2-below wrap on the tuners... and these were the old stamped "F" tuners that were supposedly notorious for not holding tune.

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Post subject: Re: Floating Tremolo
Posted: Sun Jun 10, 2018 7:47 pm
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I believe the theory is that while the plate does its job to equalize string tension against spring tension across the bridge it does not (without an angled claw) counter any torsional loads placed on the bridge plate created by unequal tensions on one side, from end to end. With a straight claw, the back side sees a uniform tension while the top sees progressive tension. I suspect this is less important on a six screw plate than it would be on a two point. Without the angled claw one point sees more pressure than the other along with a built in torsional load. Angling the claw balances both forces from end to end on both top and bottom sides.

It was explained way better back in the early 80’s when I first saw an article about it in some magazine. I’ve slept since then. Anything that was in RAM was long since lost the first time I woke and rebooted. The video is helpful to get the job done but Carl goes into less detail on the mechanics of it than I read about all those years ago.

It seems to make a discernible difference on my guitars but all of my Strats have two point plates.

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Post subject: Re: Floating Tremolo
Posted: Sun Jun 10, 2018 9:17 pm
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I don't disagree.
It's also been done for many years where the center trem spring is moved to the top-center.

The other method that we seem to see a lot of, where the springs are attached to the block top, middle, and bottom, but to the claw at "2, 3, and 4" rather than "1, 3, and 5".
This last method is poo-poo'd on Youtube by old timers, but I can see that it would add a progressive tension to the springs, since the two outer springs are under more tension than the one in the middle... it makes sense that it would make the trem a bit more sensitive around neutral.
It's not for me, but I can see the logic in doing it and won't tell anyone that they shouldn't do it.

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Post subject: Re: Floating Tremolo
Posted: Mon Jun 11, 2018 8:10 am
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Just my two centavos, the string tension is absorbed by the bridge/block and dispersed equally by the bridge /block to the springs. The springs anchored by the claw allow the block to move "evenly" with the bridge.
Regardless of the type of bridge/block/claw, it is the individual springs by their inherent design which allows movement. By shortening, lengthening or by angling the springs/claw all your changing is the tension between the block and the claw onto the spring. Its movement is still even, albeit w/ less or more tension. It doesn't allow the bridge/block to twist in accordance w/ each springs individual tension.


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Post subject: Re: Floating Tremolo
Posted: Mon Jun 11, 2018 12:40 pm
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Adam O'Blivion wrote:
I've been looking into adjusting the tremolo to float on my Strat. I've never performed the procedure before, but I'm sure I'll figure it out...especially when there are probably 30+ tutorials on YouTube.

My question is about a Fender product I noticed online called the "Genuine Fender Hipshot Tremsetter Strat Guitar Stabilization." The description says it keeps the guitar in tune after heavy bends/whammy bar action, as well as always returning the tremolo to it's exact "zero" neutral position.

Has anyone used this Tresetter? How do you like it? Does it really make that big of a difference?

Thanks.
Coming back to your original question: I had one on a Strat Plus (fitted as standard) in the 90's and it was the first thing to go. Felt unnatural to me - but that's just me. Didn't even know they still made them...

Cheers - Peter.


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