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Post subject: Strat neck stuck flat solutions?
Posted: Fri Jun 01, 2018 1:31 pm
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Hi all.
It’s been a while but I have an issue. I have a ‘96 Malmsteen Strat. Bought it new back then. I set up all my strats with significant relief and set the strings high. This particular one was always set up with 8”s but recently I noticed the neck felt flat. The fact that the guitar has been in the same environment for 20 years and has suddenly straightened it own neck out is a mystery to me but that’s another discussion. Anyway, I loosened the truss rod completely and the neck stays flat. I put 9’s. Flat. I put 10’s, screwed down the claw springs to deck the bridge and tuned E sharp. Flat. I took off the neck, placed it on two bricks, under the head and heel, and leaned on it with enough force that I thought it’d snap; but I heard no creaking/cracking sound of a truss rod unbinding (if that’s what it was). Flat. I tightened the nut to see if it was engaging the rod and it did go beyond flat into convex, so It’s not any part of the rod mechanism.

Anyone please feel free to chime in with any input they like: causes, solutions no matter how extreme, etc.; because I’ve set the bridge with a high float and high strings to compensate and though it feels better, I hate the feel of a flat board which still comes through. For those not familiar with these guitars it’s got a basic truss rod. No micro tilt. No dual action or whatever else. Nut at the heel end.

Thanks ahead.


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Post subject: Re: Strat neck stuck flat solutions?
Posted: Sat Jun 02, 2018 12:00 am
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This may sound extreme, but being careful (and with completely at your own risk, since I have no idea of your experience with guitarteching): take the truss rod nut completely off (make a note of how many turns, so you get back to original easier), tap the truss rod end very gently with a hammer&punch. If the problem is with the rod being stuck in the neck wood, this should help or a least reveal the problem. Lube the rod (the best way: a drop of oil in the threads of the nut) before reassembly.

To get a relief, leave the truss rod loose and set the guitar up with a .013 set for a week or two - although there is no guarantee the fix (just like the different heat treatment methods) is permanent.


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Post subject: Re: Strat neck stuck flat solutions?
Posted: Sat Jun 02, 2018 12:59 pm
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Thanks for the tip. I actually have the nut off now just cause there was no point putting it back on just for show.
Tell me, before I try your tip - which I’m fine with entirely - if tightening the nut does indeed further bend the neck back convex choking out the strings on bends and creating rattle - indicating the truss mechanism is indeed working in THAT respect, do you think that fact would obviate trying your tip? In other words your tip’s purpose is to see if the rod is stuck, but if it tightens properly is that enough evidence it is NOT stuck? Or is it possible the two end of the rod can pull together bending the neck backwards but still be stuck in in the ‘release’ or forward bending state. I think it’s possible to be stuck in only one of the two ways it works but figured I’d ask before taking it apart again.
What do you think?


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Post subject: Re: Strat neck stuck flat solutions?
Posted: Sat Jun 02, 2018 11:47 pm
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I just gave an idea to try. On evidence; funny things can happen with the truss rods, so (at least I) can't be sure either way. I mean, I've never met a Strat where the neck won't bend when one uses hand pressure, so your two bricks/leaning/flat neck description is quite extraordinary.
But if you don't want to try the hammering at this point, just test the thick-gauge-string-set method, with the truss rod loose.

BTW, an YJM Strat with deliberately high action and big relief, isn't that sort of a contradiction..? :wink:


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Post subject: Re: Strat neck stuck flat solutions?
Posted: Sun Jun 03, 2018 1:24 am
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How about a picture of this jacked up Strat? Your neck is messed up, you changed the bridge and now the strings aren't centered over the neck. Why not keep it all in one thread instead of a separate thread for each problem? There are no points given for the most threads.

And really, a flat neck is perfectly fine, especially with high action. You didn't mention any actual problem because of the flat neck.

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Post subject: Re: Strat neck stuck flat solutions?
Posted: Sun Jun 03, 2018 3:21 am
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shimmilou wrote:
...a flat neck is perfectly fine, especially with high action. You didn't mention any actual problem because of the flat neck.


My thoughts entirely. I'm not seeing how additional relief can be any advantage over an already high action. If anything it could be the opposite as, towards the bridge, you are potentially pushing the string down on to the uphill incline (I originally put $@!&#, but apparently that is a bad word...go figure) of the neck which will actually reduce string clearance unless the neck is shimmed.

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Post subject: Re: Strat neck stuck flat solutions?
Posted: Sun Jun 03, 2018 1:51 pm
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Why would anyone want a high action? I don't get it
The nearer the strings to the frets without any buzzing, the more accurate the note sonically ........high action means you have to push the string down more, creating a way shorter (which equals a way sharper note) when playing (I should know, way back in the day I had a Rosetti airstream 2 with a quarter inch action which played crap , all out of tune, so I shimmed the neck to compensate, then found out the pickups wouldn't go down far enough so had to put up with a crap action )

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Post subject: Re: Strat neck stuck flat solutions?
Posted: Sun Jun 03, 2018 3:50 pm
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And being that the neck is scalloped this would suggest a very light touch is required, not something you associate with a high action?

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Post subject: Re: Strat neck stuck flat solutions?
Posted: Sun Jun 03, 2018 6:02 pm
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Or maybe, like the string spacing, it's always been like this but now he's noticing because he's changed the bridge from a 2-bolt pivot to a 6-screw vintage style and it is no longer the same height?

But I thought the YJM models all came with 6-screw bridges, bullet truss rods, and brass nuts?

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Post subject: Re: Strat neck stuck flat solutions?
Posted: Sun Jun 03, 2018 7:36 pm
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They certainly do. Not sure what he’s got now, but it’s far from a Malmsteen.

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Post subject: Re: Strat neck stuck flat solutions?
Posted: Mon Jun 04, 2018 12:00 pm
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jmattis wrote:
I just gave an idea to try. On evidence; funny things can happen with the truss rods, so (at least I) can't be sure either way. I mean, I've never met a Strat where the neck won't bend when one uses hand pressure, so your two bricks/leaning/flat neck description is quite extraordinary.
But if you don't want to try the hammering at this point, just test the thick-gauge-string-set method, with the truss rod loose.

BTW, an YJM Strat with deliberately high action and big relief, isn't that sort of a contradiction..? :wink:


Sorry for the delayed response, but good way of putting it! I see you’re point. I’ll definitely try that. Weird things can happen like a rod working one way but not the other, I guess; so I’ll give it a try. What the heck. I’m perfectly comfy trying this.

Also, I wasn’t clear on my two brick thing. When I placed the head and the heel on bricks and pushed on the fret side of the neck, it did bend quite noticeably; but what didn’t happen, and what I was hoping would happen, was that there’d be a creaking/cracking sound of the theoretically frozen truss rod being freed up; and then ultimately, upon reassembly and stringing up, there would be the relief you’d expect with strings on and the nut fully loose. But of course there was no change. But once again, the nevk did bend noticeably when I leaned on it, but didn’t solve the problem. It was a theory. But maybe tapping the rod will do it.

And yeah it does sound counterintuitive but I I do love the feel of relatively freakish high action and relief. Hate it the other way around. All of mine are that way. And I can intonate them all perfectly which you’d not expect given the travel it takes to fret at the 12th; you’d think it’d pull it sharp beyond what the intonation screws could compensate for. Just under that threshold I guess.


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Post subject: Re: Strat neck stuck flat solutions?
Posted: Mon Jun 04, 2018 12:14 pm
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shimmilou wrote:
How about a picture of this jacked up Strat? Your neck is messed up, you changed the bridge and now the strings aren't centered over the neck. Why not keep it all in one thread instead of a separate thread for each problem? There are no points given for the most threads.

And really, a flat neck is perfectly fine, especially with high action. You didn't mention any actual problem because of the flat neck.


I’ll take a full body pic when I can.
And really? Darn it! I was TOTALLY going for maximum points with my separate threads! You busted me!
No, of course I kept the threads separate because it’s easier for me to track the separate issues by keeping the topics separate. That was a no brainer.

And I’d say there is no crisis here but I definitely indicated the issue I have and that is I can feel the flat neck. Like anyone else, if you’re used to playing with any degree of relief it sticks out like a sore thumb when it’s flat, even with high action; especially when all your other strats have that relief. Again, no crisis, but I prefer some relief so I figured why not ask for help from such a huge collective knowledge base rather than just deal with it.

And imo, I don’t see how it can be the bridge. I replaced the bridge three years ago and my hand just noticed the flat feel in the last few weeks; and I have been playing it regularly since the bridge swap.

Anyways, preciate the help.


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Post subject: Re: Strat neck stuck flat solutions?
Posted: Mon Jun 04, 2018 12:24 pm
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John Sims wrote:
shimmilou wrote:
...a flat neck is perfectly fine, especially with high action. You didn't mention any actual problem because of the flat neck.


My thoughts entirely. I'm not seeing how additional relief can be any advantage over an already high action. If anything it could be the opposite as, towards the bridge, you are potentially pushing the string down on to the uphill incline (I originally put $@!&#, but apparently that is a bad word...go figure) of the neck which will actually reduce string clearance unless the neck is shimmed.


Yeah I understand what you’re describing but the action isn’t that high. Plus, my other strats are set up identically with the added relief and there’s no such issue; though I am aware of that potential.
Aside from that, as far as what advantage can relief over already high action give, I can only say that they are of course objectively two different things that impart two different feels subjectively.
As I said in another reply, there’s no crisis; it plays and feels and sounds great, but there’s something ‘technically’ wrong with the truss rod functioning and the feel has changed to a degree that I notice it and don’t like it. Plus it’s interesting to try to problem solve with the knowledge base here.
So again, thanks for the help.


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Post subject: Re: Strat neck stuck flat solutions?
Posted: Mon Jun 04, 2018 12:36 pm
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ted j wrote:
Why would anyone want a high action? I don't get it
The nearer the strings to the frets without any buzzing, the more accurate the note sonically ........high action means you have to push the string down more, creating a way shorter (which equals a way sharper note) when playing (I should know, way back in the day I had a Rosetti airstream 2 with a quarter inch action which played crap , all out of tune, so I shimmed the neck to compensate, then found out the pickups wouldn't go down far enough so had to put up with a crap action )

Image


I can’t tell you; but I think plenty of people prefer high relief/action as opposed to otherwise. Low action and especially low action with flat to little relief feels bizarre to me; especially with big bends and left hand vibrato, but overall playing as well. I started off with low action/relief but moved away from it over time. All my strats are set up the same way; and they intonate perfectly, no buzz, no rattle - even though a little of any of that doesn’t bother me at all - so the action isn’t THAT high.

I had a thought of shimming at the head end of the heel of the rod issue can’t be solved, but I’ve read that shimming unevenly - other than a whole pocket shim - can cause the neck go develop a warp there. Read it on a seemingly reputable luthier site on the net but I’m just going by what I’ve read.


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Post subject: Re: Strat neck stuck flat solutions?
Posted: Mon Jun 04, 2018 12:38 pm
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John Sims wrote:
And being that the neck is scalloped this would suggest a very light touch is required, not something you associate with a high action?


Yeah but nonetheless...... !


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