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Post subject: Re: Question about Original Fender Stratocaster 1972-1974
Posted: Tue May 01, 2018 9:57 am
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Gennadiy wrote:
I was not offended.
I really appreciate the opinion of everyone who answered my post.

The choice of years is easy to explain: older Strats are more expensive.
1972-1974 is a compromise between the price and the year of production.
Four-bolt Strats of an earlier production (until 1971) are more expensive....


They are more expensive, not just because they are old but because they were good. Rock Gods don't buy excruciatingly expensive 50's and 60's Strats and use them on tour just to be flash. They buy, and play them, because they are just so damn good.

The same has seldom been said of the 70's era Strats. There are obviously some good ones in amongst them but, my understanding is, on the norm, they were pretty poor. I read somewhere that more than 50% failed internal quality control but were sold any way. Changes had left staff disillusioned and rather than the guitars being put together by guitarists in the 50's and 60's they were thrown together by people who didn't care one way or the other.

If you want a guitar to pose with because it is old, fair enough. If you want a guitar you can enjoy playing (assuming a 50's or 60's original is out of reach) more modern offerings are just plain better all round. A modern MiM 70's reissue is probably head and shoulders better than most actual 70's Strats to play and in build quality.

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Post subject: Re: Question about Original Fender Stratocaster 1972-1974
Posted: Wed May 02, 2018 3:07 am
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John Sims wrote:
Gennadiy wrote:
I was not offended.
I really appreciate the opinion of everyone who answered my post.

The choice of years is easy to explain: older Strats are more expensive.
1972-1974 is a compromise between the price and the year of production.
Four-bolt Strats of an earlier production (until 1971) are more expensive....


They are more expensive, not just because they are old but because they were good. Rock Gods don't buy excruciatingly expensive 50's and 60's Strats and use them on tour just to be flash. They buy, and play them, because they are just so damn good.

The same has seldom been said of the 70's era Strats. There are obviously some good ones in amongst them but, my understanding is, on the norm, they were pretty poor. I read somewhere that more than 50% failed internal quality control but were sold any way. Changes had left staff disillusioned and rather than the guitars being put together by guitarists in the 50's and 60's they were thrown together by people who didn't care one way or the other.

If you want a guitar to pose with because it is old, fair enough. If you want a guitar you can enjoy playing (assuming a 50's or 60's original is out of reach) more modern offerings are just plain better all round. A modern MiM 70's reissue is probably head and shoulders better than most actual 70's Strats to play and in build quality.
Agree totally. My new '79 was exceptionally heavy and had a VERY poorly finished neck; fretwork was awful. As it was the first real Strat I could afford, I put up with it, but looking back I must've been mad to buy it! And I certainly wouldn't buy another, but of course that's just me.

I recall also having an 80 quid used base-model Yamaha SG200 at around that time, and it ran rings around the Strat quality-wise.

Cheers - Peter.


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Post subject: Re: Question about Original Fender Stratocaster 1972-1974
Posted: Wed May 02, 2018 4:05 am
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I largely agree with John and Peter.
But there is one significant factor: a dried wood.
The body and neck of 50's and 60's guitars is a naturally dried in 60 years wood.
The naturally dried wood gives the guitar a distinctive vintage resonant sound.
The older the guitar, the more vivid the vintage color in the sound.
Modern guitars have very comfortable necks, but do not have a vintage sound.
1972-1974 aren't generally considered to be the glory days of Fender but the Fender guitars of that time have one advantage over modern guitars: it is naturally dried in 40 years wood.
Therefore, even early 70's Strats are appreciated by musicians.
Of course, not all musicians agree with this point of view.

There is another reason for the high cost of old guitars: almost all the legendary rock songs were composed and recorded on guitars of the 50's and 60's. Just because there were no other electric guitars in those years. :)


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Post subject: Re: Question about Original Fender Stratocaster 1972-1974
Posted: Wed May 02, 2018 11:50 am
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Gennadiy wrote:
....
But there is one significant factor: a dried wood.
The body and neck of 50's and 60's guitars is a naturally dried in 60 years wood.
The naturally dried wood gives the guitar a distinctive vintage resonant sound.
The older the guitar, the more vivid the vintage color in the sound.


A fair point again in favour of 50's & 60's Strats but not relevant to 70's Strats.

Original Strats we finished in Nitrocellulose. 70's Strats were plastered with a dozen coats of polyester. This, in effect, sealed the body in an impervious plastic shell. It will be no drier, wetter, more or less resonant than it wasn't in the 70's.

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Post subject: Re: Question about Original Fender Stratocaster 1972-1974
Posted: Wed May 02, 2018 7:00 pm
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John Sims wrote:
Original Strats we finished in Nitrocellulose. 70's Strats were plastered with a dozen coats of polyester. This, in effect, sealed the body in an impervious plastic shell. It will be no drier, wetter, more or less resonant than it wasn't in the 70's.
And that assumes that you believe that the tone of an amplified guitar is impacted by the body wood.
"Vintage" bodies and different woods absolutely make a difference in the unplugged acoustic tone, and they impact the tone of hollowbody guitars.
There is very minimal impact on the tone of solidbody guitars.

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Post subject: Re: Question about Original Fender Stratocaster 1972-1974
Posted: Thu May 03, 2018 12:04 am
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Gennadiy wrote:
almost all the legendary rock songs were composed and recorded on guitars of the 50's and 60's

Isn't that sort of contradicting your '70's dried wood' idea? In the 50's/60's when those legendary rock songs were recorded, the guitar wood didn't have the forty years drying time (Moses & the desert) background.
And: quite a few legendary rock songs were recorded with brand new, polyester (see my comment below) finished 70's Strats in their time, too. :wink:

But seriously; you(/your friend) have some opinions/beliefs about how a guitar should be. I don't share the same views, but I'm sure you(/your friend) play better with an instrument that feels just right. So, do what the heart says.


John Sims wrote:
Original Strats we finished in Nitrocellulose. 70's Strats were plastered with a dozen coats of polyester. This, in effect, sealed the body in an impervious plastic shell. It will be no drier, wetter, more or less resonant than it wasn't in the 70's.

As a technical comment, not talking about the possible effects on electric guitars & amplified sounds:
I respectfully disagree. No finish used in guitar manufacturing is enough to prevent wood from drying (or even reabsorbing moisture, if the conditions favor that).
Plus you don't pay any attention to other factors in 'old' or aged wood - the lignins, bonds etc. (BTW; that is/has been one research subject within the thermowood area.)


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Post subject: Re: Question about Original Fender Stratocaster 1972-1974
Posted: Thu May 03, 2018 2:22 am
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jmattis wrote:
John Sims wrote:
Original Strats we finished in Nitrocellulose. 70's Strats were plastered with a dozen coats of polyester. This, in effect, sealed the body in an impervious plastic shell. It will be no drier, wetter, more or less resonant than it wasn't in the 70's.

As a technical comment, not talking about the possible effects on electric guitars & amplified sounds:
I respectfully disagree. No finish used in guitar manufacturing is enough to prevent wood from drying (or even reabsorbing moisture, if the conditions favor that)...


I think the whole "drying" is a bit confusing. All timber used in fabrication of anything (green oak aside) is dried before use. Otherwise the timber will warp and twist. When the tree is alive it pumps water through the its structure to produce growth. The drying process, used prior to construction, is in an attempt to remove any residual water between the timber cells from when it was alive. So you are trying to get rid of the water the tree held in growth.

Wood however is an open cell structure which will allow water molecules a place to hide. If you have untreated, dried, timber it can absorb moisture, water molecules, from the air (or if it is left in a puddle, flooded basement etc.) so it will achieve a state of equilibrium with its surroundings. Water is really annoying because it will suck itself into small spaces. If you put anything within an impervious casing it can no longer absorb or discharge the water molecules as they can't pass through that barrier.

However, in this impervious shell, the trapped water can no longer achieve equilibrium with its surroundings. So if the ambient moisture level is higher or lower there will be changes in pressure and stresses with the timber due to the trapped water.

I accept that no guitar body coating is going to be entirely impervious due to screw holes, neck pocket etc. and there will be transfer of moisture in these areas, but that is different to the transfer across the whole surface.

Now, whether timber which has been dead for 50 years sounds different to timber which has been dead for 10 years, irrespective of its moisture content, I wouldn't want to hazard a guess. Fender would have you believe old timber is much better hence their premium on the reclaimed Old Bridge Pine guitars.

A hollow instrument sounds more mellow after many years due to reduced stress within the structure. Construction holds the timber stopping it move. As it tries to move it causes stresses. These stresses ultimately cause micro fractures in the bonds and these micro fractures diminish the stress. If you look at the body of an old guitar generally there is a crack in the lacquer between the shell and the top and bottom as an example. Old acoustic instruments do definitely sound better. I have what was a very mediocre acoustic when I bought it 40+ years ago. It is now pretty damn good.

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