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Post subject: Re: US Vintage Stratocaster 77
Posted: Sun Apr 08, 2018 7:11 am
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That looks like a 39 year old guitar that's been played for most of its 39 years.

I don't see anything that screams fake or modded, but I'd need to see a lot more pics. Neck pocket, neck heel, body under the pickguard, electronics.

Kinda looks like a separation of the body pieces developing near the forearm contour. Would want better pics of that.

Assuming both Strats in this thread are real, one refinished and the other showing lots of playwear, the worn one has somewhat higher value. Not as much value as a better condition all original.


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Post subject: Re: US Vintage Stratocaster 77
Posted: Sun Apr 08, 2018 7:24 am
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I'm wondering if you're just curious about '70s Strats, or if you're thinking of buying one.

And if you're thinking of buying one, do you want to play it or will it be an "investment"?

("Investment" in quotes because it's a highly speculative, risky place to invest your money. As we Baby Boomers die off there's a very strong chance the vintage market will get much weaker and values will go down. Especially for second tier/third tier collectables like '70s Strats.)

If you want one as a player, why? Because of Trower, Blackmore, other people who played them? Sentimental reasons (your birthyear, the Strats you lusted after as a kid)? The myth that older is better, just because it's older?


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Post subject: Re: US Vintage Stratocaster 77
Posted: Sun Apr 08, 2018 10:37 am
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Thanks for that infos!

The answer to the previous question - I just like the sound of the vintage serie. It's very universal for any kind of music - I play on my part-caster that is actually a good imitation of 69th model even some fingerstyle staff:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B-NXmIhGSW4

or some funky staff
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oznt-v9Xdb0

I also have a question regarding the neck profiles of the 70-th strats.

Today I have tried a 1978th strat that had amazing sound however the neck appeared for my large hands with long fingers too narrow as compared to my 1969 strat (i guess it with the C profile neck). Does all 70th strats have the same neck profile? What models should be with the wider neck?

Thanks in advance!


Last edited by Gleb Novikov on Sun Apr 08, 2018 11:02 am, edited 2 times in total.

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Post subject: Re: US Vintage Stratocaster 77
Posted: Sun Apr 08, 2018 10:56 am
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The neck pickup tone knob is not original and also not the correct knob.

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Post subject: Re: US Vintage Stratocaster 77
Posted: Sun Apr 08, 2018 11:10 am
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Gleb Novikov wrote:
I also have a question regarding the neck profiles of the 70-th strats.
Today I have tried a 1978th strat that had amazing sound however the neck seemed for my large heads with long fingers too narrow as compared to my 1969 strat (i guess it with the C profile neck). Does all 70th strats have the same neck profile? What models should be with the wider neck?
I had a '78 Strat and a '79 Strat.
The two were entirely different guitars, almost like they were made by different companies.
The necks were different, the '79 was "clunky" and not pleasant to play.
The '79 pickups were horribly underwound, the sound was very thin with very low gain.
The '78 body was heavier by at least 2kg

Much of the work done on vintage guitars was done by hand. They had routing templates and profile gauges, but that was only for the rough cutting. The final shaping and sanding was up to the skill of the worker.
This is where the 70s got their reputation for being not as good. CBS corporation had purchased Fender from Leo, and as time went on, they began to do everything they could to reduce costs and increase production.
Rather than building quality instruments that the builder could take pride in, it was, for many employees, a 9 to 5 job and they were just pushing product out the door.
So as we moved later into the 70s, nearing the end of the company's life before the formation of FMIC and the move to Corona, quality and consistency continued to deteriorate. My two guitars were perfect examples of this, where my '78 was a fantastic guitar, and my '79 was a piece of junk.
If I could find my '78 for sale somewhere today, I would pay $3000 or more for it and I would resume playing it. I wouldn't pay more than $800 for my '79... and the ONLY reason I would re-purchase the '79 is because it was a Silver Anniversary model.

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Post subject: Re: US Vintage Stratocaster 77
Posted: Sun Apr 08, 2018 11:13 am
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CB91710 wrote:
Gleb Novikov wrote:
I also have a question regarding the neck profiles of the 70-th strats.
Today I have tried a 1978th strat that had amazing sound however the neck seemed for my large heads with long fingers too narrow as compared to my 1969 strat (i guess it with the C profile neck). Does all 70th strats have the same neck profile? What models should be with the wider neck?
I had a '78 Strat and a '79 Strat.
The two were entirely different guitars, almost like they were made by different companies.
The necks were different, the '79 was "clunky" and not pleasant to play.
The '79 pickups were horribly underwound, the sound was very thin with very low gain.
The '78 body was heavier by at least 2kg

Much of the work done on vintage guitars was done by hand. They had routing templates and profile gauges, but that was only for the rough cutting. The final shaping and sanding was up to the skill of the worker.
This is where the 70s got their reputation for being not as good. CBS corporation had purchased Fender from Leo, and as time went on, they began to do everything they could to reduce costs and increase production.
Rather than building quality instruments that the builder could take pride in, it was, for many employees, a 9 to 5 job and they were just pushing product out the door.
So as we moved later into the 70s, nearing the end of the company's life before the formation of FMIC and the move to Corona, quality and consistency continued to deteriorate. My two guitars were perfect examples of this, where my '78 was a fantastic guitar, and my '79 was a piece of junk.
If I could find my '78 for sale somewhere today, I would pay $3000 or more for it and I would resume playing it. I wouldn't pay more than $800 for my '79... and the ONLY reason I would re-purchase the '79 is because it was a Silver Anniversary model.


but the 77-th strat that I have demonstrated on the first page has what kind of profile of the neck?


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Post subject: Re: US Vintage Stratocaster 77
Posted: Sun Apr 08, 2018 11:14 am
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Love your videos. You have very good tone and talent.

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Post subject: Re: US Vintage Stratocaster 77
Posted: Sun Apr 08, 2018 11:16 am
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Gleb Novikov wrote:
but the 77-th strat that I have demonstrated on the first page has what kind of profile of the neck?

It is difficult to tell from the photos.
But again, consistency was a problem during this time.
My '78 had a nice, soft "V". A friend in Philadelphia had one with a very hard "V".
Yet from everything I read, the "V" neck was phased out by CBS and the 70s necks were supposedly C or D.

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Post subject: Re: US Vintage Stratocaster 77
Posted: Sun Apr 08, 2018 1:02 pm
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I guess than C or D should be the broader shapes than the U and V shapes, shouldn't it? What actually is the difference between C and D shapes?

Thanks !

Gleb

CB91710 wrote:
Gleb Novikov wrote:
but the 77-th strat that I have demonstrated on the first page has what kind of profile of the neck?

It is difficult to tell from the photos.
But again, consistency was a problem during this time.
My '78 had a nice, soft "V". A friend in Philadelphia had one with a very hard "V".
Yet from everything I read, the "V" neck was phased out by CBS and the 70s necks were supposedly C or D.


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Post subject: Re: US Vintage Stratocaster 77
Posted: Sun Apr 08, 2018 7:23 pm
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CB91710 wrote:
The neck pickup tone knob is not original and also not the correct knob.


Good eyes -- black on black I didn't notice that.

Appears to have 2 screws next to that knob? Or possibly empty holes where a couple of switches had been added then later removed.
-----------------------
The '70s is when aftermarket upgrade parts really burst onto the scene. And people had no qualms about modding '70s guitars in all sorts of crazy ways -- because we all felt confident they'd never become valuable collectables.

I did wacky things to my '75. Used a screwdriver and a hammer to chisel out the bridge pickup cavity, then enlarged the pickguard opening and drilled 3 holes to install a Tele bridge pickup.

Schaller tuners (reamed out the peg holes and drilled new screw holes), brass saddle and nut, chrome dome knobs, Quarter Pound in the neck (after trying to rewind the stock pickup and screwing it up). Filled the incredibly oversized neck joint with white glue.
---------------------
So even more so than with '50s and '60s guitars, you really need to examine '70s guitars closely for past molestations.


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Post subject: Re: US Vintage Stratocaster 77
Posted: Sun Apr 08, 2018 8:51 pm
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strayedstrater wrote:
Appears to have 2 screws next to that knob? Or possibly empty holes where a couple of switches had been added then later removed.
I saw those, but for some reason they didn't register.
Seem too close to the knob to be for switches. Perhaps the center pot was replaced with some kind of rotary switch as a part of an active system at some point?
Quote:
The '70s is when aftermarket upgrade parts really burst onto the scene. And people had no qualms about modding '70s guitars in all sorts of crazy ways -- because we all felt confident they'd never become valuable collectables.

I did wacky things to my '75. Used a screwdriver and a hammer to chisel out the bridge pickup cavity, then enlarged the pickguard opening and drilled 3 holes to install a Tele bridge pickup.
Yep. First thing I did with my '78 was replace the saddles with some aftermarket saddles... they were supposedly chromed brass (to replace the cast "mystery metal" Fender saddles)
2nd thing I did was replace the bridge pickup with a DiMarzio SDS-1 (creme)... on the antigua pickguard, the creme bridge with two stock black pickups actually didn't look bad.

I didn't do any major mods until I got my Hondo H-1
Quote:
So even more so than with '50s and '60s guitars, you really need to examine '70s guitars closely for past molestations.
Honestly, until I am able to perform a hands-on inspection, I would go under the assumption that anything from '73-'85 has been modified or refinished.

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Post subject: Re: US Vintage Stratocaster 77
Posted: Tue Apr 10, 2018 1:53 am
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Back to the original topic :-) I wonder to ask what is actually difference between the real vintage and reissue models of the 70th strats. For example what can be said regarding that guy
https://www.zikinf.com/annonces/dispann ... ce=1524454

as I have noticed the neck is a bit wider like a C-shape as compared to the guitar demonstrated on the 1st page, isn't it?

Thanks!


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Post subject: Re: US Vintage Stratocaster 77
Posted: Tue Apr 10, 2018 6:13 am
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++ there is a question regarding the authority of this real vintage 1978. What can be said regarding the conditions of the instrument compared to the 1977 refined strat that was demonstrated on the first page?
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1lcqu6 ... BxGRb4-Hyc
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1ypRuk ... P5s-JCY4xh
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1Oy1dC ... IRH2borNay
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1JhTnZ ... P_heXN2-5Q
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1VDOrK ... sBBnPy8HDu
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1vbXwt ... dCzq0p-Oqg
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1VYoPF ... _awA8eP5zs

Thanks!!


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Post subject: Re: US Vintage Stratocaster 77
Posted: Tue Apr 10, 2018 9:47 am
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None of those pics raise any major questions about authenticity to my eyes.

String nut may have been replaced.

Serial number decal looks a little odd because you can see the rectangular backing. But since that's a separate decal and a different type of decal than the logo decal, it's not super suspicious that it may have aged differently.


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Post subject: Re: US Vintage Stratocaster 77
Posted: Tue Apr 10, 2018 10:03 am
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Earlier questions about neck profile/shape and width.

Width and profile are independent. You can have a narrow C or a wide C. A narrow U or a wide U.

Most modern Strats have 1 11/16" nut width.

Fender necks generally had narrower nut widths in the '50s, '60s, and '70s.

An article about neck shapes:
https://www.fender.com/articles/tech-ta ... is-for-you

The article doesn't mention D profiles. A D is sort of like a cross between a C and a U -- roundish back like a C, but flatter sides like a U.


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