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Post subject: Re: US Vintage Stratocaster 77
Posted: Sun Mar 25, 2018 12:37 pm
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Gleb Novikov wrote:
I can upload an archive with more photos of the instrument if you would suggest me some web service, cause I can not attach the photos directly to the post

Open a free account on imgur.com, create an album, and upload all of your images there.
You can then link directly to them using the [img] tags.


My opinion, we are looking at a refinish over a possibly original body, but more likely a replacement body.
The neck and pickups look correct, but a '77 would have a B-W-B pickguard and black plastics. It would also have included an ashtray bridge cover.

The rectangular spot on the lower bout under the pickguard (with a matching "something" on the back of the pickguard. It appears that the back of the pickguard has been painted with carbon paint.
There is a round hole bored under the neck pickup that is barely visible... that would not have been on a '77. It looks almost like the CNC locating holes on the lower half and neck pocket of current production models.
The bottom corners of the neck pocket don't look right.
The interior of the case for my '78 was black.

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Post subject: Re: US Vintage Stratocaster 77
Posted: Sun Mar 25, 2018 12:41 pm
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Yes, indeed on that model the original black pick-guard has been replaced by the white probably in order to make an impression of the 1969th strat. Here the photo of the original:
Image


strayedstrater wrote:
Black pickguard, black pickup covers, black knobs, and black switch tip were standard on all '77s. Looked hideous on a white body, but that's the '70s. Striped bellbottoms, wide lapels, wide ties, polyester leisure suits, AMC Pacers -- ugly was stylish.

Odd pickguard too -- white top and black bottom? Shielding foil shape is a little wrong, but since it's not a Fender pickguard style I've ever seen that makes sense.
-------------------
The bare ash wood in the neck pocket has darkened significantly, but the paint is as white as virgin snow. Not even any ghosting under the pickguard.
-----------------
But it seems to have the barely-there mid'70s forearm contour.
------------------
Most mid'70s had the slightly squared-off pickup cavities, but Google Images turns up picks with the normal round ends too.

Both neck pocket shapes too. The style on that body, and the style that exactly matches the shape of the neck heel.

Same for gray-bottomed vs black-bottomed pickups.
-------------------
Again, provenance. Does the seller have anything to say about its history? Did the original owner put white plastic on it, then die before he could play it, and his widow never took it out of the case?

Back in the '70s nobody bought new Strats as investments. We were all sure they'd never go up in value. (It still surprises me that they have.) We bought new Strats to play.

And if it was bought as an investment, he wouldn't have changed the plastic parts. Or at least kept them in the case with the guitar.

(The case is in remarkably perfect condition too.)


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Post subject: Re: US Vintage Stratocaster 77
Posted: Sun Mar 25, 2018 2:02 pm
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CB91710 wrote:
Gleb Novikov wrote:
I can upload an archive with more photos of the instrument if you would suggest me some web service, cause I can not attach the photos directly to the post

Open a free account on imgur.com, create an album, and upload all of your images there.
You can then link directly to them using the [img] tags.


My opinion, we are looking at a refinish over a possibly original body, but more likely a replacement body.
The neck and pickups look correct, but a '77 would have a B-W-B pickguard and black plastics. It would also have included an ashtray bridge cover.

The rectangular spot on the lower bout under the pickguard (with a matching "something" on the back of the pickguard. It appears that the back of the pickguard has been painted with carbon paint.
There is a round hole bored under the neck pickup that is barely visible... that would not have been on a '77. It looks almost like the CNC locating holes on the lower half and neck pocket of current production models.
The bottom corners of the neck pocket don't look right.
The interior of the case for my '78 was black.


The new pic recently added shows the barely existant forearm contour. I've never seen any replacement body copy that "feature" common on mid~late '70s Strats.

Black shielding paint on the back of the pickguard -- yes, now I see it. Weird that it didn't cover the foil (or that the foil was put on top of it). Also weird that shielding wasn't added to the cavities. (Another hint that it may be refinished.)

This link shows another '70s with the hole in the neck pickup cavity:http://www.strat-central.com/70sstrats/

Some mid '70s had the modern neck pocket rout like that one. Others had the traditional shape.

My '75 case had red lining.

Edited to add: did you mean the hole in the bridge pickup cavity? (I don't see one in the neck pup cavity.) The link says only hardtails had a weird hole in the bridge pickup cavity.


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Post subject: Re: US Vintage Stratocaster 77
Posted: Sun Mar 25, 2018 2:13 pm
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Gleb Novikov wrote:
Yes, indeed on that model the original black pick-guard has been replaced by the white probably in order to make an impression of the 1969th strat. Here the photo of the original:
Image



So you knew it had black plastic originally and it had been changed???

Are you testing our knowledge? Playing with us?

If you know other details of this guitar's history please tell us instead of making us waste our time telling you things you already know about it.


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Post subject: Re: US Vintage Stratocaster 77
Posted: Sun Mar 25, 2018 2:54 pm
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The current version is with the white plastic as I have double-checked in the announce.

In fact I have just found the announce of that strat on the local ebay and was interested whether the guitar is indeed the U.S. vintage model or it is some sort of part-caster... :twisted:

Because I am not an expert, that is why I have decided to ask here :-)


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Post subject: Re: US Vintage Stratocaster 77
Posted: Sun Mar 25, 2018 2:59 pm
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strayedstrater wrote:
Black shielding paint on the back of the pickguard -- yes, now I see it. Weird that it didn't cover the foil (or that the foil was put on top of it). Also weird that shielding wasn't added to the cavities. (Another hint that it may be refinished.)
If original, the cavities may not have been shielded.
Interesting on the hole under the bridge pickup on the hardtail models. I suppose it could be some kind of locating reference that was not needed on bodies with the tremolo routing?

Something is odd about the color too.
It's one issue that there is no ghosting under the PG, but the color just doesn't look right either.
It's not Olympic White, which has a bit of a yellow tint... but it also doesn't look right for an Arctic White. This is just too "pure", almost like a Krylon or RustOleum white (which is actually a pretty good match for Toyota Super White).
Given the rectangle on the lower bout (and whatever that silver squiggle in it is, I suspect maybe the painter's signature?), we are at the very best case looking at a refinish, and one where the prep work eliminated all stickers and stamps that might have provided confirmation of its origin.


You're definitely right on the forearm relief. I do remember that. My '78 was more comfortable than my (plywood) Les Paul copy. That was something I didn't pick up on when I bought the Korean Squier around '94, but now that you mention it, that '78 did seem pretty "thick" between the tighter edge radius and the relief.
Quote:
My '75 case had red lining.
Now you and the reference site have me second guessing myself.
My '79 Anniversary was definitely the ABS case with black fur interior, but I don't remember the red/orange in the tolex case from the '78. I remember thinking "WOW, this is cool!" at the red/orange interior of the tweed case that I bought for my Partscaster around '98. I'm really 90% certain my '78 case was black.

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Last edited by CB91710 on Sun Mar 25, 2018 3:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Post subject: Re: US Vintage Stratocaster 77
Posted: Sun Mar 25, 2018 3:21 pm
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strayedstrater wrote:
Black pickguard, black pickup covers, black knobs, and black switch tip were standard on all '77s. Looked hideous on a white body, but that's the '70s. Striped bellbottoms, wide lapels, wide ties, polyester leisure suits, AMC Pacers -- ugly was stylish.
LOL! Funny you should mention that. I really did like the black plastics, and bought the black parts. When my Olympic White '17 is ready for strings, it's going to be converted to black.

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Post subject: Re: US Vintage Stratocaster 77
Posted: Sun Mar 25, 2018 7:05 pm
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To me the body looks like a refin.

The paint just doesn't look factory to me.

I'd say $400-$500 for that.

I picked up my '75 Fender strat all original without original case 2 1/2 yrs ago on CL for $500 .

I wasn't 100% sure in the moment I was checking it out if it as totally original,but there was enough original parts on it for me to throw down the $500 on the spot.

I'd want more proof of originality on this one.


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Post subject: Re: US Vintage Stratocaster 77
Posted: Sun Mar 25, 2018 7:39 pm
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CB91710 wrote:
strayedstrater wrote:
Black pickguard, black pickup covers, black knobs, and black switch tip were standard on all '77s. Looked hideous on a white body, but that's the '70s. Striped bellbottoms, wide lapels, wide ties, polyester leisure suits, AMC Pacers -- ugly was stylish.
LOL! Funny you should mention that. I really did like the black plastics, and bought the black parts. When my Olympic White '17 is ready for strings, it's going to be converted to black.


I love black plastics on some finishes.

Obviously I should have added "in my opinion" to "black looked hideous on white".

I love Graffiti Yellow and Antigua, and sunbursts and black finishes are my least favorites. Which seems to run counter to public opinion.

The heart wants what the heart wants.


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Post subject: Re: US Vintage Stratocaster 77
Posted: Sun Mar 25, 2018 7:45 pm
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Gleb Novikov wrote:
The current version is with the white plastic as I have double-checked in the announce.

In fact I have just found the announce of that strat on the local ebay and was interested whether the guitar is indeed the U.S. vintage model or it is some sort of part-caster... :twisted:

Because I am not an expert, that is why I have decided to ask here :-)


I apologize. I came off way to harsh.

Just could have saved a lot of us from writing a bunch of paragraphs if we had known at the beginning that it had correct black plastic on it in the past.
---------------------
I can understand if you don't want to give a link to the eBay auction.

But could you copy & paste the seller's description of it? Sometimes the way a seller describes an item can give clues as to the authenticity of the item.


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Post subject: Re: US Vintage Stratocaster 77
Posted: Sun Mar 25, 2018 8:01 pm
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Regarding the shade of the white paint:

I was hesitant to bring it up -- I thought it might just be my screen displaying it incorrectly. But since several other people notice it too, it looks like a much brighter, purer white than Fender has ever used.

Although it's possible the seller's camera is distorting the color.


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Post subject: Re: US Vintage Stratocaster 77
Posted: Sun Mar 25, 2018 8:51 pm
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strayedstrater wrote:
CB91710 wrote:
strayedstrater wrote:
Black pickguard, black pickup covers, black knobs, and black switch tip were standard on all '77s. Looked hideous on a white body, but that's the '70s. Striped bellbottoms, wide lapels, wide ties, polyester leisure suits, AMC Pacers -- ugly was stylish.
LOL! Funny you should mention that. I really did like the black plastics, and bought the black parts. When my Olympic White '17 is ready for strings, it's going to be converted to black.
I love Graffiti Yellow and Antigua, and sunbursts and black finishes are my least favorites. Which seems to run counter to public opinion.
I loved and miss my Antigua so much that I'm paying Pat Simms (ya, I know, I found all the drama AFTER I paid) the cost of a new MIM Standard for a new body and PG painted Antigua.

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Post subject: Re: US Vintage Stratocaster 77
Posted: Mon Mar 26, 2018 3:01 pm
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Actually the announce did not have much description with the exception that the guitar is real 77 vintage model (not a reissue) and the black plastic with original pick-guard have been replaced with the white. The colour of the body should be Olympic white ...

P.S. I checked also the photo focusing on the tremolo. Does the 1977 model has not a tremolo arm ?

Gleb


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Post subject: Re: US Vintage Stratocaster 77
Posted: Mon Mar 26, 2018 5:19 pm
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That's a hardtail.

Hardtails are now only on a very few specific models, like the Robert Cray Signature.

But it used to be a standard option.

It's never been as popular -- you can always lock down a trem if you don't want to use it, so most people liked the flexibility of having the trem. And many people believe the trem springs add something to the classic Strat tone, even if you lock down the trem (Clapton is one of those believers).

While rarer, hardtails lower the value compared to trem equipped vintage Strats. For the same reasons people chose the trem when they bought them new.


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Post subject: Re: US Vintage Stratocaster 77
Posted: Mon Mar 26, 2018 6:00 pm
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strayedstrater wrote:
While rarer, hardtails lower the value compared to trem equipped vintage Strats. For the same reasons people chose the trem when they bought them new.

It is interesting, but a fact of life for many products, like a manual transmission in a "grocery getter" vehicle.

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