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Post subject: Wiring mod "Direct Through" needs help
Posted: Wed Mar 21, 2018 7:18 am
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My latest, probably last, Strat build "The Texitano" has a problem. The "Direct Through" wiring mod does exactly what it's supposed to!

Basically the "Direct Through" scheme is a dpdt switch, I used a CTS push/pull tone pot. Down is normal, pulled up sends the signal (selected by the 5 way switch) directly to the jack. Bypassing the Vol & Tone pots for an unfiltered (by pots) signal.

Problem is .. it's a little too shrill on anything but mid/neck position 4.

My tuner loves it .. my ears appreciate the noticeable lift .. but I'd like to temper it slightly.

Wiring diagram below .. I appreciate any & all suggestions.

- Dan

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Post subject: Re: Wiring mod "Direct Through" needs help
Posted: Wed Mar 21, 2018 1:24 pm
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You could experiment w/ a (high or low pass filter) Res/Cap to ground placed in between the switch and the selector output to dial up a specific frequency(fixed out) of your potentiometer bypass.
The formula to determine Frequency is 1 divided by 2 (3.14) (resistance in ohms) (capacitance in farads).
For a low pass(Cap to ground) or high pass(Resistor to ground) example is low pass:

1/ 2*3.14*5000*.00000005=637 Hz
Where 5000= 5k Ohm resistance and .00000005= .05microfarads Capacitor
The lower the cap or resistor value the higher the frequency bypass, you currently have zero for a cap=maximum shrill and there is very little if any resistance built in to the wiring & switch.
In the example above, if you change the 5k resistor to 2k the result would be 1592kh.
If you drop the resistance further to 1k the result would be 3184kh.
So depending on what range of materials you have available, should help determine whether you use high or low pass either would work. Use the formula to determine a starting frequency goal then fine tune until you like all positions.

I assume you are using it as a lead boost? So are maybe targeting Freq's in the 2-4k range, each pickup will alter the frequency depending on its output specs.

EDITED: Had to come back and clean this up a bit, initial reply was just after finishing my taxes and I needed to eat something and think about what you were asking.


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Post subject: Re: Wiring mod "Direct Through" needs help
Posted: Wed Mar 21, 2018 4:39 pm
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Although I appreciate the solid info Ceric64 provided, I can't help but suggest trying dynamic equalizer. A simple stomp box could give you the ability to dial out the frequencies that are not to your liking.
Again, Ceric is spot on.. but why not keep it simple?


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Post subject: Re: Wiring mod "Direct Through" needs help
Posted: Wed Mar 21, 2018 6:01 pm
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Some other thoughts, basically the R/C network creates a frequency cutoff.
Also in the above example, if you changed the .05uF Capacitor to .01uF and kept the resistance at 5kOhm it would set the cutoff at the same value= 3184khz (all frequencies below that would pass through the guitar's output).
The pickups do count in the resistance portion of the equation and the volume control functions as a variable to the resistance and is non-linear. My assumption, you have a relatively balanced set. You may not, which will give you different cutoff values throughout the range of the PU selector.
So the easiest option imo would be a .01uF or so(to taste) capacitor to ground between the pickup selector/output and the switch to start with.
If you put it after the switch it would be cumulative to the off & on position of the switch.

Hope this helps.


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Post subject: Re: Wiring mod "Direct Through" needs help
Posted: Wed Mar 21, 2018 7:01 pm
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Adjust value as required for desired tone.
Will be out of the circuit when the switch is in "normal" and will bleed highs to ground when the switch is in "direct"

I would start with .001uf and see how it sounds. You don't want a lot.

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Post subject: Re: Wiring mod "Direct Through" needs help
Posted: Wed Mar 21, 2018 8:07 pm
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Thanks sfceric64 .. but I have to confess .. much of that is over my head

Sounds like the right direction .. I have .022uf & a .01uf caps and some 82kohm or 220kohm resistors on hand. Can you suggest a likely spectrum?

But where would this be applied? (either thered or blue line look correct?)

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Post subject: Re: Wiring mod "Direct Through" needs help
Posted: Wed Mar 21, 2018 8:20 pm
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CB91710 wrote:
Adjust value as required for desired tone.
Will be out of the circuit when the switch is in "normal" and will bleed highs to ground when the switch is in "direct"

I would start with .001uf and see how it sounds. You don't want a lot.

Thanks CB .. good advice .. you're right, I just want to take the edge off if I need a quick lead over the groove.

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Post subject: Re: Wiring mod "Direct Through" needs help
Posted: Wed Mar 21, 2018 9:59 pm
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And I drew it attached to the jack for drawing convenience and clarity. In reality, I'd put shrink-tube on the cap's legs and solder it to the switch bridge and the back of a tone pot ;)
No need to run the leg all the way to the jack, that was just the nearest source of a ground to where I drew the cap.

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Post subject: Re: Wiring mod "Direct Through" needs help
Posted: Wed Mar 21, 2018 10:15 pm
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Since you have the .022 cap installed w/ the regular setup I'd say you lean towards the higher register.
What CB said as far as the installation point, I don't know the switch lug functions.
IMO, .001uF w/ a 5K pickup would put the cutoff at over 30khz (dogland)
Don't know your pups outputs, so maybe as low as .003uF to as high as .01uF depending on your taste.
Maybe start at the small end of the range(higher cutoff) For example:
.005uF and a 5k pup would give you a cutoff of 6369khz(all freqs below)
.003uF and a 5k pup would give you a cutoff of 10,616khz(all freqs below)

I wouldn't worry/try changing or adding resistors, its easier and cheaper to swap or add a cap.
I would order some smaller caps(.003,.005,.0068) as the .01uF cap you have targets the mid range frequency range @ about 3200khz.
While you wait, if not locally sourced maybe run the .01uF for a sound test.


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Post subject: Re: Wiring mod "Direct Through" needs help
Posted: Wed Mar 21, 2018 10:45 pm
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sfceric64 wrote:
Since you have the .022 cap installed w/ the regular setup I'd say you lean towards the higher register.
What CB said as far as the installation point, I don't know the switch lug functions.
The bridge across the two poles of the switch is what bypasses the volume and tone pots. In the "^" position, the selector switch is connected to the volume pot, and the other leg of the volume pot is connected to the output jack.
With the switch in the "v" position, the pot is bypassed... the 5-way goes directly to the output jack.
This bridge across the two bottom terminals is what needs to be connected to the bleed capacitor. Connecting it anywhere else will have an effect on the circuit with the switch in the "normal" position as well.

Quote:
IMO, .001uF w/ a 5K pickup would put the cutoff at over 30khz (dogland)
LOL, ya, I was taking a SWAG at the value, but .01 would be too high... that would be a pretty significant cut in the treble, like a tone pot at 5, and he just wants to take some of the edge off for leads. Ya, .005 might be a better starting point. There's really no need for any kind of RC system with this since it is not reacting with any of the pots. It's just a simple HF bleed-off.

For experimenting, you could get three or four .002uf caps. Try one, then add another in parallel, and if that's not enough treble cut, add another. Capacitors are additive in parallel, so three would be .006uf.

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Post subject: Re: Wiring mod "Direct Through" needs help
Posted: Wed Mar 21, 2018 11:57 pm
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Quote:
For experimenting, you could get three or four .002uf caps. Try one, then add another in parallel, and if that's not enough treble cut, add another. Capacitors are additive in parallel, so three would be .006uf

If you go that route add 3 or 4 .001 caps, in case you like the sound of odd #'s.
Thanks for the explanation of the switch lugs, CB.

Mouser has a good selection of ceramic disk capacitors.
You will have to look for them in Pico farad values, 1000pf - 9000pf is the range you want. You can get smaller values such as hundreds and tenths to dial exact numbers, but that gets pricey!!
Use the filter selector in this order for an easy time.
value-whatever you want
termination style-radial
voltage- minimum 100
starter page below
https://www.mouser.com/Passive-Components/Capacitors/Ceramic-Capacitors/Ceramic-Disc-Capacitors/_/N-5g90?P=1z0x7weZ1z0z7l5Z1z0x6d8


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Post subject: Re: Wiring mod "Direct Through" needs help
Posted: Thu Mar 22, 2018 12:26 am
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I made a comment but re read the cct ... all good
:D


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Post subject: Re: Wiring mod "Direct Through" needs help
Posted: Thu Mar 22, 2018 10:07 am
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That about gets to the heart of it .. I'll buy some from Tanner Electronics

To sum up: range of caps .001 to .01uf coming off that CTS dpdt "pull" lug run to a ground

I'll let you know the results .. then it's off to the finest luthier in Ft. Worth for a Real set-up & maybe a re-fret

Thanks for the good advice .. you too jimmy_james for looking out for me.


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Post subject: Re: Wiring mod "Direct Through" needs help
Posted: Thu Mar 22, 2018 2:47 pm
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Best $1.56 I've spent .. I hope .. 13 Capacitors

can be combined in any combination up to .049uf ..

It also seemed as though working directly at the output jack

and on the lap would be the easiest way .. I hope so

Got a rare dinner invitation .. maybe some testing by tomorrow

or the next day .. quien sabe ...


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Post subject: Re: Wiring mod "Direct Through" needs help
Posted: Thu Mar 22, 2018 7:02 pm
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You can do testing directly at the output jack, but remember that if you solder the final choice in at the jack, it will always be in effect, so it will make your stock .022 caps sound like .03 if you end up selecting .008 as your ideal ear-saving value, not to mention it will kill some of the treble even when the tone pots are at 10.

I'm not sure why you redrew the circuit with the red line going from the switch to ground... that's an effective kill switch, unless you just didn't want to draw the cap, but yes, that's where the cap should be installed to keep the non-direct sound as it is today.

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