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Post subject: Re: 5-Way Super Switch
Posted: Tue Feb 27, 2018 11:17 am
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I've had my fair share of experience soldering having gone through both a recording technology program as an undergrad and an electrical engineering program as a grad student. I should be able to handle soldering the switch; it's mainly just sitting down and sketching it all out.

As for finding a secondhand guitar, I agree. Unfortunately, I've always wanted the guitar to be a blueburst finish, not a lot of those around. Anyways, it was more fun to do the finish myself and I'm pleasantly surprised with how it turned out.

I do agree, though, that a nice used American model would have been a better choice if it weren't for wanting to do the work myself.


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Post subject: Re: 5-Way Super Switch
Posted: Tue Feb 27, 2018 7:21 pm
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OK, I'm not familiar enough with the Elite wiring and the interfacing between the two "super" wafers, original type wafer, and S-1 switch to make an informed recommendation, but here's how the modern 4-wafer (actually 2 wafers with 2 sets of 6 contacts on each) are arranged:

Image

So you can see that the commons are at the ends, and you have 5 full contact sets on each.

The issue is that this is a non-shorting Common, so it takes two wafers to emulate the original Strat 5-way, as such:
C-N-N-x-B-B.....x-M-M-M-x-C
The Elite switch *LOOKS* like it is a combination of one wafer (2 sets of contacts) from the above switch, and the wafer from the original 5-way. If that is the case, then my connections above will use 2 of the 4 sets of contacts on a Superswitch to emulate the wafer on the Elite switch that has only 4 contacts, leaving the other 2 sets of contacts on the other wafer to handle the expanded functions.

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Post subject: Re: 5-Way Super Switch
Posted: Wed Feb 28, 2018 2:23 am
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CB91710 wrote:
:

Image



The issue is that this is a non-shorting Common, so it takes two wafers to emulate the original Strat 5-way, .


From Premier Guitar mag ?

https://www.premierguitar.com/articles/ ... per_Switch


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Post subject: Re: 5-Way Super Switch
Posted: Wed Feb 28, 2018 12:17 pm
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CB91710 wrote:
The issue is that this is a non-shorting Common, so it takes two wafers to emulate the original Strat 5-way, as such:
C-N-N-x-B-B.....x-M-M-M-x-C
The Elite switch *LOOKS* like it is a combination of one wafer (2 sets of contacts) from the above switch, and the wafer from the original 5-way. If that is the case, then my connections above will use 2 of the 4 sets of contacts on a Superswitch to emulate the wafer on the Elite switch that has only 4 contacts, leaving the other 2 sets of contacts on the other wafer to handle the expanded functions.


I was thinking the same thing but I think, correct me if I'm wrong, but wiring them this way would only cover half of the original 5-way switch. In which case, you would need an additional two sets of contacts to cover the other half. I think you can probably get away with it, in the case of a standard switching arrangement but once you start trying to match the switching of the American Elite that's when it starts to get messy.

I think I've worked it out. I just need to double check everything and confirm that everything is wired the way I think it is. Maybe I can post it here when I'm done and someone can double check it.


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Post subject: Re: 5-Way Super Switch
Posted: Wed Feb 28, 2018 12:22 pm
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Found this too which is an updated service manual from the one that I currently have. The wiring looks pretty much the same, though.

https://www.fmicassets.com/Damroot/Original/10001/Fender%20Am%20Elite%20Stratocaster%20011400XXXX%20SM%20REV%20B%203-24-17.pdf


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Post subject: Re: 5-Way Super Switch
Posted: Wed Feb 28, 2018 2:39 pm
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My advice is either buy the new switch ($50) and S1 or use the existing one in combo with an S1 and wire it like the old deluxe rather than the elite. :D


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Post subject: Re: 5-Way Super Switch
Posted: Wed Feb 28, 2018 2:51 pm
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jimmy_james wrote:
My advice is either buy the new switch ($50) and S1 or use the existing one in combo with an S1 and wire it like the old deluxe rather than the elite. :D


Where's the challenge in that??? :)

Going the exact opposite of your suggestion, I actually considered disassembling the superswitch that I have and also a normal 5-way switch and trying to rebuild them myself into the combination switch. I think I could do it but I also think I've convinced myself I'm crazy and talked myself out of it for now.


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Post subject: Re: 5-Way Super Switch
Posted: Wed Feb 28, 2018 7:47 pm
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mh0520 wrote:
I was thinking the same thing but I think, correct me if I'm wrong, but wiring them this way would only cover half of the original 5-way switch. In which case, you would need an additional two sets of contacts to cover the other half.

Exactly.
The original 5-way is a shorting common, so only 3 contacts are needed.
The SuperSwitch needs 2 of the 4 sets of contacts to emulate the original, but you still have 2 sets of contacts left that can be used for the enhanced functions of the Elite.
You could theoretically "waste" one of the SuperSwitch contact sets by putting the neck and bridge on their own wafers, but it's not needed unless you want the option of, say running the neck with the bridge, since the two pickups don't have any common switch positions.

Edit... Ahh... I see the issue now. My solution only covers pickup selection and ignores the tone selection.

Ya, you would need either a 3-wafer (6 sets of contacts) Superswitch, or the original Fender part.
Fortunately, on a triple-'bucker partscaster I'm designing, I'll be using the G&L S-500 tone circuit so the tone controls are connected directly to the output, leaving all 4 sets of SS contacts available.

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Last edited by CB91710 on Wed Feb 28, 2018 8:00 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Post subject: Re: 5-Way Super Switch
Posted: Wed Feb 28, 2018 7:54 pm
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stratele52 wrote:

I lifted the image from a Yahoo search.
Looks like PG used the individual graphics with permission from Blogspot.

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Post subject: Re: 5-Way Super Switch
Posted: Wed Feb 28, 2018 11:41 pm
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mh0520 wrote:

Where's the challenge in that??? :)



Well if you want to go for it.

Don't be offended but I see no challenge in duplicating something already done by fender more elegantly.
I am also hoping that you have checked to ensure your mexi mid pickup is not rwrp...
However I will be keen to see the results of your efforts so remember to post both pics and a diagram :)


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Post subject: Re: 5-Way Super Switch
Posted: Thu Mar 01, 2018 9:50 am
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Yeah, I was only partially serious about that but I do enjoy a good puzzle so trying to work out the wiring is worth a little bit of effort at least. I suspect that in the end I will end up going with the correct switch and just matching Fender's wiring though.

As for the pickup configuration, I don't recall off the top of my head if the pickups that I was planning to use are RWRP but I'm not married to them and if that's an issue with these additional series configurations then I could be convinced to go for a different set. What's the concern with using RWRP or is it just that the noiseless pickups that Fender uses are not RWRP?


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Post subject: Re: 5-Way Super Switch
Posted: Thu Mar 01, 2018 12:35 pm
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Yeah fair call I was just trying to offer some friendly advice. :D
The noiseless do not have a rwrp since there is no or very little noise and no need for cancellation.
The unusual combos that use the S1 and fancier switching do not use a rwrp and give expected results.
Slapping a rwrp in the chain can result in strange phase or cancellation effects in some positions.
This may or may not be a desired outcome depending on how you like the sound or absence thereof.
I experienced this wiring two 69s with an scn.
In addition I am not sure about the elite but some of the earlier models had the bridge wound differently to the other two for a bit more gain. :D


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Post subject: Re: 5-Way Super Switch
Posted: Thu Mar 01, 2018 12:45 pm
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jimmy_james wrote:
Yeah fair call I was just trying to offer some friendly advice. :D
The noiseless do not have a rwrp since there is no or very little noise and no need for cancellation.
The unusual combos that use the S1 and fancier switching do not use a rwrp and give expected results.
Slapping a rwrp in the chain can result in strange phase or cancellation effects in some positions.

This may or may not be a desired outcome depending on how you like the sound or absence thereof.
I experienced this wiring two 69s with an scn.
In addition I am not sure about the elite but some of the earlier models had the bridge wound differently to the other two for a bit more gain. :D


Good to know, I will definitely keep that in mind. I'm pretty sure that the ones that I'm currently planning on using are RWRP so maybe I will give them a try and see if I like the results. If I don't like what I hear, I can always try a different set or maybe rewire the positions that are less usable to a different configuration.

Thanks for the advice!


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