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Post subject: Not really "Original"
Posted: Wed Jan 17, 2018 4:05 am
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It would seem the American Vintage ReIssue (AVRI) series has been discontinued and replaced with the American Original Series.

I can see Stratosphere having a field day. At first the AO series looks to be the dogs danglies for those of us who can't afford Custom Shop or an original classic. Vintage correct everything, numbers on heel pate, nitro, decal over lacquer, even Patt Pend saddles by the look of it. All wonderful.

And then they put a 9½" rad on the neck. :roll:

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Post subject: Re: Not really "Original"
Posted: Wed Jan 17, 2018 5:57 am
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They put a 9½" radius and 5-way switching on Stratocasters for modern playability.

I was pleased seeing basses on the new series but for some reason Fender forgot adding a 70s fretless maple neck Precision in the range to compliment the block-inlaid 70s Jazz.


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Post subject: Re: Not really "Original"
Posted: Wed Jan 17, 2018 7:06 am
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chromeface wrote:
They put a 9½" radius and 5-way switching on Stratocasters for modern playability...


I can appreciate that it will make it more "pick up and play" friendly and no doubt more appealing to someone who just wants a Strat but doesn't really care about it being an authentic reproduction.

It just gets my goat that it is again a misnomer like the 50's Player etc.

IIRC whle the AVRis weren't 100% perfect reproductions they were a good try in that direction with both 3 and 5 way switches provided as an example.

I'm not precious over the switch, it can be changed either way or not, but the neck is pretty integral to the guitar. It looks like a 50's neck but wont feel like a 50's neck or a modern neck. It might well hit a sweet spot like the revered and sought after Clapton neck but even still.... "Original"?

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Post subject: Re: Not really "Original"
Posted: Wed Jan 17, 2018 8:29 am
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The AVRI's are still into production.


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Post subject: Re: Not really "Original"
Posted: Wed Jan 17, 2018 8:45 am
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chromeface wrote:
The AVRI's are still into production.


I couldn't find them listed on the UK version of Fenders Product Pages. Perhaps a more devious search might have thrown up a different result though.

Some of the well known online stores seem to have limited stock of AVRIs and some are discounting them.

A plus point on the Classic is the Nitro body over the flash coat of the AVRi.

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Post subject: Re: Not really "Original"
Posted: Wed Jan 17, 2018 9:09 am
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American Vintage is still on Fender's USA site.

But I can't find the American Originals on the site yet, even though they sent me an email a few days ago introducing the new models.

I doubt they'd drop the American Vintage models. I expect the "Originals" to be a supplementary line alongside the AV's.

"Original" is an odd choice, but marketing is often odd. I guess "original" as in "fresh", like when someone comes up with a new twist on something and you say "that's very original".

Again, marketing is weird. Like Gibson's "Deluxe" models that are below their "Standard" models.

(That reminds me that Gibson had an "SG Original" that was vintage inspired but less accurate than the '61 and '62 Reissues, which in turn were less accurate than the Custom Shop Historic.)


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Post subject: Re: Not really "Original"
Posted: Wed Jan 17, 2018 9:16 am
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John Sims wrote:
chromeface wrote:
The AVRI's are still into production.


I couldn't find them listed on the UK version of Fenders Product Pages. Perhaps a more devious search might have thrown up a different result though.

Some of the well known online stores seem to have limited stock of AVRIs and some are discounting them.

A plus point on the Classic is the Nitro body over the flash coat of the AVRi.


How is nitro vs flash coat a plus? A flash coat is nitro that's sprayed with a higher mix of solvent, resulting in a thinner coat. Like they did back in the '50s and '60s.


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Post subject: Re: Not really "Original"
Posted: Wed Jan 17, 2018 10:07 am
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strayedstrater wrote:
.... flash coat is nitro that's sprayed with a higher mix of solvent...


Hardly. Nitro, but even more dangerous. :lol:

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Post subject: Re: Not really "Original"
Posted: Wed Jan 17, 2018 10:48 am
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strayedstrater wrote:
A flash coat is nitro that's sprayed with a higher mix of solvent, resulting in a thinner coat. Like they did back in the '50s and '60s.


The '70s Jazz uses a polyurethane finish.

Quote:
But I can't find the American Originals on the site yet


The American Originals are already listed on the US website.


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Post subject: Re: Not really "Original"
Posted: Wed Jan 17, 2018 12:18 pm
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chromeface wrote:
strayedstrater wrote:
A flash coat is nitro that's sprayed with a higher mix of solvent, resulting in a thinner coat. Like they did back in the '50s and '60s.


The '70s Jazz uses a polyurethane finish.

Quote:
But I can't find the American Originals on the site yet


The American Originals are already listed on the US website.


We were debating nitro vs flash coat nitro, not poly.

When I click "products" on the menu at the top of the page, I click "guitars">"strats">"series" and it shows all the current series. "American Original" isn't listed, and they aren't included on the American Vintage page.

May be part of a different series. May be featured on some "new product" page, or on a homepage that the Forum link doesn't show me.

That could be why John can't find the AV series on the UK site. Often things aren't where you look for them on Fender's websites.


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Post subject: Re: Not really "Original"
Posted: Wed Jan 17, 2018 12:45 pm
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John Sims wrote:
strayedstrater wrote:
.... flash coat is nitro that's sprayed with a higher mix of solvent...


Hardly. Nitro, but even more dangerous. :lol:


Fender says: "flash coat means thin nitro sealer coats, thin nitro color coats, nitro top coat misted on".

That means more solvent in the sealer and color, and a lot more solvent in the clear. (Solvent is typically acetone or similar.)

Their filters and waterfall filtration can easily deal with the solvent. Because the coats go on thin the solvent flashes off quickly -- by the time they leave the factory the solvent level is just as low as thicker nitro. Possibly lower.

It uses/wastes more solvent. In the '50 and '60s acetone was super cheap and nobody cared how much they put into California's air, and they liked the aesthetic results it gives.

Nowadays they aren't adding more air pollution compared to thicker nitro mixes. Might increase their filtration costs a tad, and increases their solvent cost a tad.

OTOH, a thicker nitro/solvent mix over a non-nitro sealer (Fullerplast, poly) gives a more rugged finish, which is an advantage to many people.


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Post subject: Re: Not really "Original"
Posted: Wed Jan 17, 2018 6:55 pm
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I just learned about this change from the forum. Sure enough, the AVRI is gone and replaced (not really replaced) by the American Original which is not original. So within less than 2 years, the American Standard and AVRI guitars are gone. Way to go. BTW, when did the white pickguard give way to the mint green as they state in their 60's series description? Sorry, my 1966 Strat had a white pickguard and it never turned green.


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Post subject: Re: Not really "Original"
Posted: Wed Jan 17, 2018 8:33 pm
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LawFlow wrote:
I just learned about this change from the forum. Sure enough, the AVRI is gone and replaced (not really replaced) by the American Original which is not original. So within less than 2 years, the American Standard and AVRI guitars are gone. Way to go. BTW, when did the white pickguard give way to the mint green as they state in their 60's series description? Sorry, my 1966 Strat had a white pickguard and it never turned green.


They are going for the early 60s look (well, say 1959-1964 look); the white plastics that didn't turn green start in late 1964 or 1965.

That being said Fender went with the mint green look on the AVRI '62s with the 1998-August 2012 series, and they carried the mint green pickguard forward on the AV '59 rosewood fingerboard model with the August 2012-2017 series.


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Post subject: Re: Not really "Original"
Posted: Thu Jan 18, 2018 12:55 am
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Getting back to the flash coat anyone else here find it chips really easily?
It is never a problem I have with the std nitro .... :D


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Post subject: Re: Not really "Original"
Posted: Sun Jan 21, 2018 8:13 pm
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I managed to buy a s/hand 65 Strat last year and it's already got finish checking(2015 build). Don't bother me though as I fully expected rapid ageing with these flash coat nitro finishes. 52 Tele will age too no doubt. Talking of the AVRI though. It's a shame Fender have killed them off. Nothing more to lust after and collect now? Oh well, your loss Fender.


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