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Post subject: Re: Are valve amps in the decline...even with Strat players?
Posted: Mon Jan 01, 2018 9:05 pm
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It is refreshing to see solid state getting some love. The thing I like about solid state is being able to really dial in a specific tonal palette in the amp to match very different guitars, and then save them all as presets.

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Post subject: Re: Are valve amps in the decline...even with Strat players?
Posted: Thu Jan 04, 2018 10:31 am
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I´m in the process of building a rig after a 8 year hiatus from playing in a band (or playing guitar at all, really) and find myself pretty overwhelmed by the choices there are nowadays. Seems to me that amp and modeling technology has taken some giant leaps forward in just a decade.

When I quit playing I had my Marshall 2204 with a 4x12 and some stomp boxes, as there was just nothing else that offered the same sound and simplicity. But I always got the complaints for being too loud, no matter the size of the venue. So I experimented with attenuators, cab simulators and smaller cabs but nothing really sounded right.

But nowadays, shopping for tube amps and all that new stuff created to tame them feels like paradise in comparison. There´s so many great new stuff I would have to spend a week in the guitar store to check everything out. All these great little lunchbox amps, custom cab manufacturers that offer massive sounding 1x12 or 2x12 cabs, IR technology for cab simulators... there is endless possibilities to create a rig that will sound like my old JCM800/4x12 combo without it´s size, weight and unbearable volume.

So I think, tube amps are not in a decline. Pretty much to the contrary.
And I´m very happy about the fact that you don't HAVE to use a modeler anymore to get a decent guitar sound at low to zero stage volumes.

But then again, 99% of the audience are there to get drunk and have fun and don't give a crap about your tone anyways, so why even bother... :lol: :lol: :lol:


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Post subject: Re: Are valve amps in the decline...even with Strat players?
Posted: Sat Jan 06, 2018 8:55 am
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kraftybob wrote:
I actually just went the other way. Have always had solid state or hybrid amps.......................at the end of the day I’m still lugging the amps around and weight is weight.

This is me too. I started out with Solid State amps, mostly because as a young man, I didn't have the money to shell out for a Tube amp; and I just wanted to play.
As I grew older, I not only have the opportunity to upgrade guitars (started on a 1985 Harmony H80T Strat copy which I still have and love) AND amps (started on a 15 watt Solid State Gorilla practice amp, which is long gone, or was it a B.C. Rich, or Dean Markley---had all 3 at one point. LOL!).

My first "hybrid" was a Vox VT30 which I HATED immensely. Could find absolutely no love for anything about the amp. Only had it because I bought a Fender Frontman 65R from a gear site, and burned through 2 of them (in 2010 when Fender was having problems with them and eventually pulled them from production and sales) in a week and a half...instead of taking my chances on a 3rd. one, the gear site offered the Vox (which was slightly more expensive), so I accepted and regretted every stinking second of it.
NOW, my only "hybrid" amp is the Fender Super Champ X2 head and cabinet...and I love those, so I'll never get rid of them. I don't count my Mustang IV (acquired in a trade), because it is 'for sale' simply because it's just far too much power for me---I don't hate it....just don't need it.
The Super Champ X2 will be my last 'hybrid' amp.

My two Solid State amps, are more kept because of sentimental and collectable reasons (though both functional, and great sounding). Both Fender's from 1992. Ultimate Chorus 2x12, and Deluxe 85 1x12 (with black grill cloth and red knobs). Still use the Ultimate Chorus quite a bit if I wanna get heavy and loud.
These two will be my last Solid State amps.

As for all Valve or Tube amps (however you like to say it), I have 1999 Fender Blues Junior, and a 2017 Fender Pro Junior III. I am completely content with these two, and they are (by far) my most played amps. I like the sound of these amps so much, if I ever decided to purchase another amp, it would be another Tube amp.
Had the Hot Rod DeVille 4x10 at one point, and found it to be way too much amp for me...so apparently, I am in the 15 watts (valve) or less vicinity. I MAY consider the 22 watt Super Sonic in the distant future...but more than likely (if I felt the need) would check out the 15 or 7 watt Bassbreaker's.
But for now; splitting and/or pairing the Blues Jr. and Pro Jr. with my ABY, gives me EVERYTHING I ever loved in the sound of music.

100% Tube/Valve wins hands down for this "old guy". The younger (Millennial) generation have been brought up in a more 'technical' time, and seem to love their complex gadgets, so there is no doubt the hybrid will win out FOR A WHILE, until enough of them are exposed to the simple deliciousness that tube amps bring, and eventually everyone will have atleast one tube amp in their arsenal. The full valve amp will live on forever...whether it is the top seller for the next decade is anyone's guess.
If anything, the Solid State amp may disappear. Even some of these beginner "Package" deals are moving off the 10 or 15 watt SS amps (Frontman 15G comes to mind) and offering a hybrid with built in effects (Mustang I comes to mind).
Basic Solid State is slowly disappearing from buyer options.


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Post subject: Re: Are valve amps in the decline...even with Strat players?
Posted: Sat Jan 20, 2018 7:51 pm
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The vacuum tube was invented in 1904 by John Ambrose Fleming.

The dudes credited with the 1947 invention of the transistor were John Bardeen, Walter Brattain, and William Shockley.

In July 1959 Robert Noyce filed a patent for the integrated circuit.

While you are all arguing about the imminent death of ancient tech, remember that all of your tasty licks created by electrons flowing through your favorite tubes, transistors and oh-so-modern IC's are going to be transmitted to your ears by the loud speaker, invented in 1876, by a certain A. G. Bell.

1876.

One hundred forty one years ago.

Talk amongst yourselves.


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Post subject: Re: Are valve amps in the decline...even with Strat players?
Posted: Sat Jan 20, 2018 10:53 pm
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Post subject: Re: Are valve amps in the decline...even with Strat players?
Posted: Sun Jan 21, 2018 2:45 am
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At no time would I suggest Tube isn't the best. It is the sound and performance by which all others are judged.

Even modeling amps use the tube equivalent to describe the amp they are emulating.

But all amps are are not equal, even tubes differ in sound and performance.

I love my tube amps but I now play more often through my digital Yamaha or a computer. Do they sound "better", well at room volume actually yes. At room volume I can get sustain that goes on for days. I can't do that, at room volume, with my valve amps, even the 5W ones.

I also increased my tally of solid state amps. My ancient Peavy Backstage Plus was joined by a Katana Mini. Both are great, convenient, amps but fall short of the sound and feel of tube.

There has been a lot of hype on the Internet over the solid state Katana Mini. For the money it is very good, but IMHO not as good as the now older Yamaha THR5 digital amp.

This brings me back to the start of this thread as, if I was building another live rig, I would give the Yamaha THR100X2 (or what ever it is called) serious consideration. It is the most convenient way to build a two amp rig with conventional control, controlable sound and volume in a bullet proof and reliable package.

If they still made the Marshall JMP1 rack mount valve pre amp and 20/20 power amp I wouldn't consider the Yamaha but my Marshall rack rig is so old now that I am not sure gigging it would be sensible without investing in duplicate gear as a back up.

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Post subject: Re: Are valve amps in the decline...even with Strat players?
Posted: Tue Jan 30, 2018 5:55 pm
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Are valve amps in the decline...even with Strat players?

Hoo Boy! That’s a tough question. I think with each there’s a love and hate relationship that touches most if not all digital and non digital gear.

Let’s look at some trends and history in the music world. The following (not to include any and all) have seen solid state and/or digital become the norm or alternative even amongst doubters.

Radio

Juke Boxes

TV (audio and video)

Cameras (Can you say film? Can you say digital selfie?)

Audio and video recording gear, including mixers and stereo amplification, and media

Keyboards (nothing wrong with a B-3 with a Leslie, but even a guitar can sorta simulate that today).

Percussion (pretty much equal here)

Digital vs Analog Stompboxes (different strokes for different folks)

and so on and so on

I still have a fondness for old tube jukeboxes with their heavily tracked scratchy records, and I have two tube AM antique radios without stations to receive. Then again I have an expensive digital tuner that lacks those same A.M. stations. The satellite and wifi radios work though.

My Mustang IV has features not seen in most sweet sounding tube amps, but it doesn't require the same attention either. It seems that features are not only a big concern, but I think they will play a part in the future too. Perhaps, we’ll see more solid state and/or digital head amps with dependable wireless cabs and other cool useable features. After all, marketers are prone to keeping developments on the shelf for years and that includes perfected improvements.

I have a friend that has reputedly collected more than 100 guitars having connections with bands and Canada’s largest music retailer. A few weeks ago he told me that he is presently cloning the sound and features from his extensive amps’ collection. He swears by his Kemper. Others may have similar preferences with other choices. YMMV

In the end there will always be the Classic/Antique buff, but as history shows the latest greatest is susceptible to improvement and acceptability. History also shows that it isn’t always better.

I think the time will come when tube amps take a second place as a boutique selection much like with stereo HiFi. Just like high end studios with their rare and cherished gear, a lot of qualities will be unavailable in their original form but may be available in another configuration. When will tube amps step into this category? When the first or, more likely, second major tube amp manufacturer takes the leap.

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Post subject: Re: Are valve amps in the decline...even with Strat players?
Posted: Wed Jan 31, 2018 4:24 am
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I find myself fascinated by this NuTube technology which VOX seem to be fronting. I am still waiting to see how it develops but find myself sitting on my hands to avoid buying one of their 50W mico sized heads.

I could have two on a pedal board, 2x12 cab wired stereo and get a stereo rig that weighs next to nothing.

On one of the many NAMM videos it was suggested that every guitarist should have a VOX NuTube head in his gig bag as a back up....sounds like a solid suggestion.

There seems to be quite a lot of manufacturers going hybrid with tube based pre amps and solid state power amps. I am seeing this as quite a good thing if you don't dime your amp.

I had a Samson solid state power amp in my rack rig, it was heavy but a great piece of kit. I have the Marshal JMP-1 valve preamp and now use the Marshall EL84 20/20 valve power amp. Do I notice the difference? Well I can hear the fan on the Marshall, but otherwise I'm not sure that I can. I am certainly less nervous of throwing the Samson in the boot/trunk of the car.

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Post subject: Re: Are valve amps in the decline...even with Strat players?
Posted: Wed Jan 31, 2018 3:05 pm
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I found this. Two players who have tube experience, and I’m guessing others have similar observations and reasons for the shift.:





As for whether the crowd pays as much attention as players to tube versus solid state, I think it is minimal if at all. As a boomer I grew up in a valve world. What we did immediately key in on was the bouncing spring reverbs, lush vibratos, hum and a lot less distortion in those early days. When controlled feedback and distortion came to center stage, it was immediately hated or embraced. When it came to effects, that’s something the crowd could always better relate to. They certainly didn’t care what the name of the mic was as long as it looked like an Elvis mic or an ice cream cone. :lol:
Some will point out that distortion with tubes is better matched than with solid state. Hmm. Speakers can play a difference as well, but other compromises might accompany the change. Maybe yes, maybe no. Different for sure. However, when you mix a cocktail of valve, transistor, and/or digital effects it often is a toss up. Sometimes you’ll get sounds that can only be dedicated to one of those designs. If it sounds good, it is good, and that can be subjective. If it’s different that may be enough to like or dislike regardless of the build. Bad is not so hard to define. It does exist, but it doesn’t sell well either before or after the crowd. IMHO. YMMV.

Just remember that the cool tube or solid state amp on stage may not be what’s being fed from the off stage rack. The music is in the hands, the mind, and the soul. Oh, brother. :wink:
FSB

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