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Post subject: Re: Are valve amps in the decline...even with Strat players?
Posted: Sun Dec 03, 2017 9:11 pm
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I love the raw sound of ancient tube amps (radio stations and other bizarre noises). I'm sure it's just nostalgia from my garage band days.


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Post subject: Re: Are valve amps in the decline...even with Strat players?
Posted: Mon Dec 04, 2017 4:00 am
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LawFlow wrote:
I love the raw sound of ancient tube amps (radio stations and other bizarre noises). I'm sure it's just nostalgia from my garage band days.


I agree. The whole pop and hum, even the smell, takes me back to my youth.

However, if I just want a little fiddle around while I brew a cup of tea that little Yamaha is solid gold. Switch the switch...play...switch the switch and carry on. No preheating valves, waiting, turning up the volume, turning down the volume, cooling off etc etc. By the time my valve amps are ready to rock my tea is like tar and I haven't even started playing. :-)

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Post subject: Re: Are valve amps in the decline...even with Strat players?
Posted: Mon Dec 04, 2017 10:54 am
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Depends on the audience, (no, not the listening audience.)

Most heavy giggers, are going to mostly be running tube amps.

I have about a half dozen amps. 3 are tube amps, I use a pedal board with them that is about as heavy as a small tube amp. A pita to move, but, the sound/dynamics/response is there.

I have two mustang V1s (III and IV) for noddling / practice etc.. the Mustangs kill it. Sound great, lots of options, FX built in... sound great a low volumes.

But when you need to have a great sound at with a louder volume situation, they start to fall off their saddle.

Just as mentioned a few posts back,, they don't stand in the mix like my Marshall, Deville or Goldtone GA30RVS amps will.

I won't use the SS Modelers unless the situation really calls for it (like one set in a multi band setting - quick on/quick off, 10 songs, yer done. The Stang's are ok for it. A compromise yes but one I'll take everytime).

If my band is playing a full night, or multi night gig, the tube amps are really irreplaceable.

As for the "marketing" side of it. Not only tube amps. Guitars them selves are in a down turn. It'll come back,, just like Nero Jackets... eventually.. ya know?? :lol:


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Post subject: Re: Are valve amps in the decline...even with Strat players?
Posted: Mon Dec 04, 2017 5:58 pm
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LawFlow wrote:
Nokie wrote:
omar59 wrote:
I think the old timers will never leave them behind, the younger people coming up, I think some day they will. With the high cost of tube amps and the weight, they will look for other options. Some will go back to them, just like people raised on CD's and MP3's are going back to LP's.

But I think the future is bleak for the tube amp. :(

8)

As an old timer (born in the '50's) I'll confirm that I hold on to my tube amps - mostly big Fenders (Showman and Twins) and a couple of Standels (25L15 and 100L15) and a Mesa Boogie (Mk1) in there. That said, I do also play out often with a solid state Quilter Micro-Pro 200. It's light weight, loud and clean (I'm not an overdrive or distortion player). The future for tube amps is indeed bleak - unfortunately. I think it follows just from the fact that electric guitar sales are in decline.
I'm an old timer as well and I don't see an interest in this kind of equipment. We're doomed to electronic computer junk. Hang on to your old recordings. :)


Oh yeah, you bring to mind all this amp modeling that can be done on computer. I'm guessing it's already happening that the same amp modeling is available for smartphones and young acts are simply plugging their guitar into the smartphone and sending the cr&p sound via Bluetooth to the mixing board from where the cr&p sound is then distributed to the masses. "Will we ever free ourselves from these demons of mediocrity!"


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Post subject: Re: Are valve amps in the decline...even with Strat players?
Posted: Mon Dec 04, 2017 6:53 pm
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Charleton Heston said it most succinctly......

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FROM MY COLD, DEAD HANDS.

As I live and breathe, I'll always play an amp powered by vacuum tubes.

Arjay

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Post subject: Re: Are valve amps in the decline...even with Strat players?
Posted: Mon Dec 04, 2017 7:38 pm
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Welcome back Arjay!!

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Post subject: Re: Are valve amps in the decline...even with Strat players?
Posted: Mon Dec 04, 2017 8:21 pm
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Retroverbial wrote:
Charleton Heston said it most succinctly......

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FROM MY COLD, DEAD HANDS.

As I live and breathe, I'll always play an amp powered by vacuum tubes.

Arjay
I figured you'd be back occasionally. :)


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Post subject: Re: Are valve amps in the decline...even with Strat players?
Posted: Mon Dec 04, 2017 8:23 pm
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John Sims wrote:
LawFlow wrote:
I love the raw sound of ancient tube amps (radio stations and other bizarre noises). I'm sure it's just nostalgia from my garage band days.


I agree. The whole pop and hum, even the smell, takes me back to my youth.

However, if I just want a little fiddle around while I brew a cup of tea that little Yamaha is solid gold. Switch the switch...play...switch the switch and carry on. No preheating valves, waiting, turning up the volume, turning down the volume, cooling off etc etc. By the time my valve amps are ready to rock my tea is like tar and I haven't even started playing. :-)
I need to get something light and simple. Kids, are you listening to dear old Dad?


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Post subject: Re: Are valve amps in the decline...even with Strat players?
Posted: Tue Dec 05, 2017 7:23 am
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after playing thru solid state amps for many years, I decided to get back into tubes. 2 years ago I bought an allen accomplice jr, a nice light 30 watt tube amp. a few weeks ago I bought a twin reverb. it started life as a silverface, but was rebuilt using 65 circuitry, and blonde in color so it is unique.

I find these amps to have more warmth than the solid states I had-just a more classic tone. I have over the years played a few different s.s. models-I even own a quilter mini head-and they are much better than they used to be.


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Post subject: Re: Are valve amps in the decline...even with Strat players?
Posted: Sat Dec 09, 2017 4:16 am
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BMW-KTM wrote:

...... but both guitars were distant and vague sounding.
Very little definition, almost no punch and virtually no presence at all.
It reminded me of my own experience with Line 6 amps.
I got very close to the sounds I wanted but they always sounded like they were coming from a stereo system ....


I have been giving this some thought and wonder if, in part, it is the dreaded preset syndrome.

With any rig, if you have analogue controls you will set the rig to sound good in the venue and even change it as the venue fills.

With a digital preset rig (even a multi effects unit) this is often configured to sound good in your practice room to accurately represent the sound of the cover you want to play, your particular vibe etc. etc. The trouble is it will sound completely different when you gig it because of the room ambience. An analogue rig you just twiddle knobs. With a digital rig the presets can be so deeply embedded in countless menus that a simple tweak can create havoc and often results in a "That'll do" approach as, if it goes wrong, much worse will happen.

This is a big downside of these digital solutions and is a further artefact of that "digital signal can sound just like anything" where you spend hours dialling in that exact sound for a cover which is so good and recognisable that it only sound right on that one number. Way too long spent poncing about with parameters which could have been better spent actually playing.

This is why I like these new small amps from Yamaha and BOSS. They have a simple analogue style layout and sound good without all the menus and multiple parameters. The Yamaha you can do clever stuff with if you plug it into a PC or tablet, but it really isn't necessary to enjoy it.

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Post subject: Re: Are valve amps in the decline...even with Strat players?
Posted: Sun Dec 24, 2017 3:32 am
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By way of continuation...

I recently bought Positive Grid Bias FX. A trial version was included with an interface I bought for my PC and I have been very pleasantly surprised. They also do Bias Amp in which you can spec up the amp, even by choosing which tubes and circuitry are being simulated.

Bias Amp was way too geeky as, I don't really care how the sound is obtained, I just want to enjoy the sound. That said, it might be an interesting and cheaper tool in getting an indication how real tubes might perform if you were thinking of swapping real tubes in your real tube amp. There is little worse than investing in a new set of exotic tubes only to find they sound bad.

Bias Fx comes with a selection of simulations of commonly enjoyed amps and a similar selection of effects pedals which, in their virtual world, look very much like the real world pedals and rack units, they are emulating. The joy of this you know what the "knobs" do so there isn't the faf of working out attack, decay, pre echo, post echo, sag and the million and one other parameters that seem important to those who like such things.

So what is it like? Well much will depend on your analogue section after the signal has been converted back from 1's and 0's. I dragged some of my little used PA gear out of a rack to feed some biggish full range speakers and it doesn't suck.

Obviously it isn't like standing in front of a wall of Marshall 4x12s but it also doesn't leave your ears ringing for days after (mine manage to do that all by themselves these days but that is an aside). In that respect it is a bit sterile almost but it also comes at practice volumes.

The long and short is, it doesn't suck and is great fun. There is the worm hole of a million pre configured "sound likes" if you want to down load them but, if you just want to play about it is great.

Have you ever wondered what a wet-dry rig with a Marshall Plexi and Fender Twin might sound like when you put a Tube Screamer, Fuz Face and Univibe in the chain? Just pick them off the list and dump them in your pedal chain that even looks like a pedal chain.

Seriously, it is a shed load of fun and even a proper tool if you use the likes of Spotify to practice covers. I would probably never consider it for live use but it is a great toy for personal entertainment.

You will need a reasonable computer and an audio interface as the standard onboard PC sound processing is too laggy to be any fun at all. Other than that, it is about the cheapest fun you can have with a guitar without getting thrown out of a music shop for trying everything and buying nothing.

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Post subject: Re: Are valve amps in the decline...even with Strat players?
Posted: Sun Dec 24, 2017 5:24 am
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John, I have my own (stand-alone) house and I live alone.
I don’t play bedroom levels, ever.
I know exactly what you mean about the dreaded preset syndrome.
Regarding my years of experience using a Line-6 amp, I spent years fine tuning my sounds for playing at volume.
I never was able to escape noticing my amp sounded less present and less distinct than a tube amp.
It always sounded more like a home stereo than a tube amp.
I always had a direct comparison available to me at all times because I was never in a band where the other guitarist also used a modeller.
I had a constant reminder that I had not yet “arrived” and needed more tweaking.
It’s the main reason I finally gave up on it and went back to traditional amps and pedals.
Upon doing so, my sounds were instantly much improved.
To my ear.
The only thing I missed about that world was the ability to step on one button and instantly switch multiple parameters for a completely new tone.
I was back to tap dancing.
That’s the main reason I chose to give the Helix an honest try.
I was gong to build a MIDI controlled pedal board but that turned out to be impossible for my needs.
The amplifier part of that tech still has no appeal for me.
I periodically try new models and the tech keeps improving but the focus and presence and authenticity always seem absent.
My two cents.

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Post subject: Re: Are valve amps in the decline...even with Strat players?
Posted: Sun Dec 24, 2017 8:29 am
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Quote:
Positive Grid Bias FX
Had to Google this one, John! And having read the Guitarist review, I still have no idea what it is or how it works! To be fair, the review lost me after about 3 lines and I just couldn't be bothered after that! But if you're getting some fun out of it, that's great!

You definitely need to make a change every now and again to keep the flame alive and kicking, but I don't honestly think I'll ever go for something using a smartphone as an amp (if I've got it right). I'm still loving a Strat straight into the Rectoverb 25 - no toys in between. Heaven!

Inclined to sell my Pod Live XT but I'm sure I'll need/want it in the future if I do! If only because I can put it through my PA rig if/when the Mesa's in the shop; there are some decent sounds to be had with minimal tweaking. BMW, fair to say it's a low-tech version of your Helix, but it's also probably easier to use. I did buy an HD500X when they came out, but couldn't work it out at all and returned it!

Cheers - Peter.


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Post subject: Re: Are valve amps in the decline...even with Strat players?
Posted: Sun Dec 24, 2017 2:30 pm
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Actually, Pete, the basics are pretty self explanatory on the Helix.
It's pretty easy to get up and running.
It's when you dig deeper into the settings that things start to get a little heady.
There are parameters I didn't know existed or what they could possibly do for me.
Selecting an amp model and a few stomp boxes (or no boxes if you prefer) and adjusting gain, volume, effect level and EQ and then saving them as a patch are all pretty straight forward.

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Post subject: Re: Are valve amps in the decline...even with Strat players?
Posted: Sun Dec 24, 2017 4:22 pm
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Peter S wrote:
Quote:
Positive Grid Bias FX
Had to Google this one, John! And having read the Guitarist review, I still have no idea what it is or how it works!


It comes in many flavours. There is an iPad version, as I understand, but also a stand alone programme on the PC. This can also be used as a plug in on you favourite digital audio workstation software.

As a stand alone you just fire it up, pick your amp/amps pedals etc and off you go.

The joy is that it is simple and you don't have to get bogged down in rubbish to enjoy it.

There are many YouTube videos but , while the video is annoying, this one perhaps best demonstrates how simple it is to use.

https://youtu.be/tlr7ogjWrJc

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