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Post subject: Mysterious Holes in my MIJ Stratocaster
Posted: Wed Oct 04, 2017 10:48 am
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So, back in about 1986, I bought a new MIJ strat. Being young and stupid, I covered it with stickers, routed the body to put in a humbucker in the bridge position and had a Kahler tremolo put in. I am now going to restore this guitar back to some semblance of decency and I'm in the process of getting rid of the Kahler and putting a Fender tremolo back on. Now, the original tremolo is LONG gone, lost over the 30 some odd years I've owned the guitar. As such, I have no idea what originally came on the guitar. The body is routed for a tremolo so I'm assuming that's what came on it. Now, here's the question...I know that the original tremolo was not a six screw type because those holes don't exist. There are two holes, just like what you'd think you'd see for the two post (American?) tremolo system but they are in the wrong place. What are they?! They are too far apart and not centered in front of the hole routed for the tremolo to fit into. Also, the cutout on the rear of the pickguard (the one the bridge/tremolo fits into) mostly covers the holes, which also leads me to believe that they are not there for the tremolo. They are decent sized holes (roughly 3/8" diameter) and they are grooved.

I was going to attach a picture but I'm not sure I can or have permission.

Anyway, I hope I haven't made this too confusing and any information anyone can give me would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks.


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Post subject: Re: Mysterious Holes in my MIJ Stratocaster
Posted: Fri Oct 06, 2017 12:51 am
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Pic posting: upload pics to the web, get the image address (http://.............jpg), copy it and paste it between brackets on the IMG-command.

The trem could be a System, Spyder or some version of Floyd, but pinpointing is impossible with the info you give. Pics needed...
And, what's the exact model of the guitar? The markings/stamps in the neck and neck pocket could reveal that.

Edit: Check also old photo albums (yours/family's/etc.), if you'r lucky there's a faded phot which shows the original trem.


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Post subject: Re: Mysterious Holes in my MIJ Stratocaster
Posted: Mon Oct 09, 2017 10:34 am
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First off, thanks for the info about posting a picture. I'm going to try that here and see what happens. I have put in arrows pointing to the holes in question (please disregard the stickers, I'm removing them even as we speak) and you can see that they don't line up with the routing, nor are they in the right position for a two-point tremolo.
Also, I have since removed the neck and found the serial number FST 562 on the neck and F 562 in the neck pocket. The neck has a sticker that says "Made in Japan" so I'm pretty sure it's an MIJ stratocaster. Anyway, here's the picture (I hope this works):

Image


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Post subject: Re: Mysterious Holes in my MIJ Stratocaster
Posted: Mon Oct 09, 2017 11:44 am
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Your pic shows just fine.
And what it shows really is two trem post holes.
My guess is those are for a System I trem (the off-centering looks to fit that), but a) that's just a guess, and b) those are hard to find and expensive.

The guitar isn't original anymore, so might be wisest to choose a quality trem, plug/fill all previous assembly holes and redrill.


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Post subject: Re: Mysterious Holes in my MIJ Stratocaster
Posted: Tue Oct 10, 2017 9:00 am
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Sorry to be a trifle negative, but so much wood has been routed from the trem stud/post area, especially on the treble side, you could have problems whatever 2-post trem you fit.

I mention this as I've had problems with posts leaning over towrads the neck, even with 9's on E flat tuning, on 90's Strats. And those Strats hadn't been additionally routed in that area; they just had (presumably) softer-than-normal wood and the swimming-pool rout. Makes intonation impossible and doesn't do a lot for your confidence when playing!

But then, if you're going to do a lot of woodwork in that area, you might be able to put the strength back in? Not simple, though.

I should think we all did things like this to (what are now) rare guitars when we were young. I certainly did and could kick myself now!

Cheers - Peter.


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Post subject: Re: Mysterious Holes in my MIJ Stratocaster
Posted: Tue Oct 10, 2017 11:56 am
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jmattis is correct.
You'll notice that even though the holes don't line up well with the block cavity, they do line up well with the neck and the pickup cavities.

An offset bridge assembly is indeed going to be difficult to source.
Your options will be limited as to how semi- "original" you can actually get it.
Look for one to be sure and look hard as that's your best option.
Whether you find one or not though, you're still going to have to do some fancy woodworking.
The extra routing for the Kahler isn't going to be covered up by an original style bridge or by a modern 2 or 6 point.
You're looking at machining out a square, plumb, true section and then glueing in an equally precisely machined block of wood followed by careful measuring and possible machining to get a new bridge in.
Then you're looking at a re-finish.

If this were my guitar I would strongly feel like I had two options.
1) put the Kahler back in and live with it
2) get a brand new, replacement body from Warmoth or some other.

All that woodworking would not be an option for me unless I could guarantee I had the original style bridge.
If I'm going to end up with a guitar that is just as non-stock as it is now I would not be able to justify the time and finances to do a half hearted restoration.
Especially on an MIJ/CIJ.
If it was a vintage MIA I might feel it was worth the trouble.
That's me.

This is your choice.

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Post subject: Re: Mysterious Holes in my MIJ Stratocaster
Posted: Tue Oct 10, 2017 10:46 pm
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Sorry I can't see your pic but going off what others have said, patching is a big job. Take a look

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CUUuMzxJ9h8

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Post subject: Re: Mysterious Holes in my MIJ Stratocaster
Posted: Wed Oct 11, 2017 4:28 am
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BMW-KTM wrote:
If this were my guitar I would strongly feel like I had two options.
1) put the Kahler back in and live with it
+1

And; I wouldn't be able to get those stickers off there fast enough (White Dog HATES stickers)---but if you do it right, you should be able to peel them up, and dissolve the glue residue without having to strip the paint.


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Post subject: Re: Mysterious Holes in my MIJ Stratocaster
Posted: Wed Oct 11, 2017 7:03 am
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Goo Gone is your friend for getting the sticker glue off.

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Post subject: Re: Mysterious Holes in my MIJ Stratocaster
Posted: Thu Oct 12, 2017 4:34 am
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BMW-KTM wrote:
Goo Gone is your friend for getting the sticker glue off.

Have never heard of Goo Gone until now. Just looked it up, and it is definitely MUCH cheaper than the Zippo Lighter Fluid I've been using (because I use a Zippo lighter, so I always have fluid on hand).
Lighter fluid works great, but it IS a petroleum product, so you wanna clean the treated surface (soap and water or whatever) immediately after you get glue residue off---I've never ruined a paint job with it.

Thanks BMW-KTM for the heads up on the product....I'm gonna get some.


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Post subject: Re: Mysterious Holes in my MIJ Stratocaster
Posted: Fri Oct 13, 2017 8:16 am
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BMW-KTM wrote:

.....2) get a brand new, replacement body from Warmoth or some other..


^^^^ This ^^^^

The original body is firewood. It isn't worth the time, effort or money.

Unless you have another body from which you can create a jig the potential for it to go wrong is significant. And then when you have applied the £100 of paint to make it look like new you will have no clue of what is under the paint ant way.

If it has sentimental value then put the body in the corner of the room, look at it and go "Ah! I remember when..." and fit a new body to your neck ...

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Post subject: Re: Mysterious Holes in my MIJ Stratocaster
Posted: Fri Oct 13, 2017 10:44 am
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John Sims wrote:
BMW-KTM wrote:

.....2) get a brand new, replacement body from Warmoth or some other..


^^^^ This ^^^^

The original body is firewood. It isn't worth the time, effort or money.

Unless you have another body from which you can create a jig the potential for it to go wrong is significant. And then when you have applied the £100 of paint to make it look like new you will have no clue of what is under the paint ant way.

If it has sentimental value then put the body in the corner of the room, look at it and go "Ah! I remember when..." and fit a new body to your neck ...



I concur.
This would be the route I would take.
I would not even dabble with the idea of continuing with an offset bridge.
I would actually try to find a used AS body on the cheap. (See sidebar below)
I recant my previous advise to buy a new body as that would be expensive for a guitar that, because it will be a Partsocaster, will never have any significant resale value.
So, that would be the route I would take but I am a middle aged man with a job and I could afford such an undertaking.
And I have the patience for it.
We don't want to understate THAT requirement.
If I was still young and struggling and money was tight I would just put the Kahler back in and clean up the mess on the outside and call it done.



Sidebar:
I say AS (American Standard) because the parts you get, if they're for an AS, will all fit.
There's no guarantee you'll find a body and a complete set of hardware, pickguard, etc. that all fits together if you start deviating from MIA.
Korean, Japanese, Mexican, Chinese ... they don't all have standard sizes for these things and there's no guarantee an aftermarket company will make parts in all sizes.
It's not just the sizes of things, it's also the hole placements.

Check this out:

Image

Think just any 2 point bridge will fit on the pin locations of your guitar?
Think again.
Same goes for lots of things.
Pickguards in particular.
If you stick with MIA specs then you will always have a perfect fit.
If you choose to go ahead with the used body approach, you're going to want to keep the old body around at least until the project is 100% completely finished and you are certain there are zero issues.
During the build, there may arise a need to compare measurements for things like neck pocket and bridge cavity.
Sometimes there is a need for a work-around solution to a problem when doing projects like this one.

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