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Post subject: String Buzz After Fret Level
Posted: Thu Aug 10, 2017 8:50 am
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I bought a "new" 2013 MIA Standard Strat about a couple of months ago. It never had a previous owner. Played great in the store. I chose this Standard over the other Strats they had in stock as the neck felt the best to me.

The guitar has a bit of buzz to it, particularly the low E to the G string. Especially the G string, it buzzes like crazy. I set it up to Fender's specs, which has a little higher action than I like, still had the buzz. Took it to a couple of local techs, one adjusted the truss rod so there was too much relief. I suggested to him that it was a fret issue as I had checked it with a rocker, but since he doesn't work on frets he sent me on my way. I knew this wouldn't do for me, it still buzzed, and adjusted it back to 0.010. Took it to another one, who has been in the business for decades and worked warranty for major guitar brands, and he used his fret rocker to determine there were quite a few high frets up and down the neck as I had done, but since he isn't Fender certified he didn't want to do anything as it should be a warranty issue.

So, the nearest Fender certified tech is an hour away. I dropped my guitar off a week ago. He plays phone tag with Fender and gets it all squared away to do a warranty fret level. Cool. Got it back yesterday - it still buzzes on the same strings. He set it up to Fender's specs, it was still buzzing, so I adjusted the action back down to 3/64's across the board as I like, because screw it, it still buzzes. I checked with a fret rocker and it's the last two frets that are causing the issue. Once I play those notes, no buzz.

Another thing I noticed is that the truss rod almost seems maxed out now, tightened all the way. I'm hoping it's just the climate and environment change the guitar went through (2000 feet elevation change and humid mountain weather to a dry valley). The rod will loosen, but it seems it's maxed out when you tighten it.

Do I just have a lemon on my hands? My Squiers don't buzz this much. I picked this guitar because the neck felt great and it was the belle of the ball, at least to me, when comparing to the others in stock. There aren't many shops (or techs) where I'm at. The guitar doesn't buzz through the amp so much, but it definitely kills what sustain it has.


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Post subject: Re: String Buzz After Fret Level
Posted: Thu Aug 10, 2017 9:55 am
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3/64" is way too low to be practical.
Way.
Like, really, really way too low.
That's under 1/16"
Any guitar can and will buzz set that low.
Even 3/32" (6/64") is low.

If you have 3/64" across the board then your relief is very likely not adjusted properly.
Your action should get higher as you move up the board from the nut.
It should level out a little at some point mid-board and then get higher again as you continue up the board.
The fact that your last two frets appear to be the cause of the buzz reinforces the maladjusted trussrod idea.
Especially in light of the fact you just had a fret level done.

I adjust all my guitars to pretty much the same spec and I have no buzz on any of them regardless of country of origin.

0.008" (+/- 0.001") of relief, tuned to standard pitch, capo on first fret, fretting on the sixteenth, where the neck profile transitions to rectangular for the pocket.
Saddles adjusted so they closely follow the contour of the board radius and yielding just under 1/8" of action height.

Sometimes I will go a tad higher or lower, depends on the guitar and what I want it to do.
I consider the range from 3/32" to 5/32" to be a pretty wide range and pretty much the limits of practical usability.

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Post subject: Re: String Buzz After Fret Level
Posted: Thu Aug 10, 2017 10:28 am
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Fender's recommended specs for a 9.5" radius are 4/64 across the board for a strat, so 3/64 isn't too far from that. The relief is 0.010" measuring the way you described, as Fender recommendeds. The first step the certified tech had to do was setup to Fender's specs. I then lowered the action to 3/64". It buzzed at the Fender specs after the fret level, so lowering the action didn't cause the buzz as it was already there at a higher action. I have two other guitars set up like this and there's virtually no buzz unless I get super aggressive.


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Post subject: Re: String Buzz After Fret Level
Posted: Thu Aug 10, 2017 10:56 am
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This evening I will raise the action past Fender's specs to see if it still buzzes. I will try at 6/64" (though this is higher than I like). What can be done about the truss rod? I'm not sure if this was buggered up during the fret level, or if it is a result of the change in climate. It is at 0.010" and I'm not sure if I can get it any straighter than that as the truss rod meets a lot of resistance and I refuse to force it.


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Post subject: Re: String Buzz After Fret Level
Posted: Thu Aug 10, 2017 11:10 am
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If you have run out of room on your trussrod there may be other issues at play here.

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Post subject: Re: String Buzz After Fret Level
Posted: Thu Aug 10, 2017 11:18 am
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For the record, I have always thought the setup numbers given by Fender must have been misprints but I just checked back to previous setup guides that Fender used to publish (Mr. GearHead) and they have the same numbers.

I know I could never personally play any guitar with an action of 1/16" and 0.010" of relief seems a little much to me as well.
Different strokes, I guess.

One more thing.
Maybe check your frets again.
I'm wondering if it's possible the tech may have skipped the highest frets during the levelling.

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Post subject: Re: String Buzz After Fret Level
Posted: Thu Aug 10, 2017 12:05 pm
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dayman wrote:
nearest Fender certified tech
He set it up to Fender's specs, it was still buzzing

Don't try to fix with the guitar yourself, the warranty repair was not acceptable, so a redo is in order.

I like lowish action/very little relief myself, but a 1,2mm(3/64") action is not easy to get totally buzz free on a 9.5" radius; everything needs to be perfect. {And as a BTW; the difference between 3/64" and 4/64" (1,6mm) is just the some tenths of a millimeter that may decide the buzzing/not.}

If you just must fiddle with the guitar, try how it plays with a straight neck. Use a light picking touch.


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Post subject: Re: String Buzz After Fret Level
Posted: Thu Aug 10, 2017 12:20 pm
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That's what I'm afraid of, another repair. I don't remember the truss rod being this tight before the repair when I was setting it up myself. Part of me thinks it would have been better off left alone and to have just lived with the buzz.

Like I said, the buzz cannot be heard through the amp, but the majority of my practicing is in my apartment with headphones on, where I hear the buzz coming through acoustically (not from the amp) even with my headphones on. My biggest gripe is that it kills what sustain I have when compared to the 2 strings that are buzz free. The G string is especially bad. It's almost like a snare drum with a loose snare.

So is the 0.008" relief and 6/64" action usually considered "medium"? When I brought it to the techs around here, except the one that did the repair, with 4/64" action they asked if I played any slide guitar as it was high. This is why I'm trying my own setups as no two people play alike - what works for one won't work for another, and also because I question their competency. I don't feel comfortable doing any fret or nut work, but truss rod adjustments and bridge/saddle adjustments are no issue.

I'll give him a call and see what he has to say. I might need to make another 120 mile round trip this weekend.


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Post subject: Re: String Buzz After Fret Level
Posted: Thu Aug 10, 2017 4:32 pm
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I'd say 0.010" relief and 3/32" to 7/64" would probably be about medium.
Any more than 1/8" and your moving into the "high" territory.
Like I said, the 1/16" specified by Fender seems low to me and I find it a curiosity that it's there in the guide.
I would have thought they'd start people off somewhere closer to middle of the road.

I like mine slightly on the high end of medium at 7/64" or so but I like a slightly flatter board than 0.010".
I find the 0.008" relief produces less buzz than 0.010" if the action is the same in both situations.
I don't think there is any appreciable difference between the two when playing between the nut and maybe the 5th fret.
Between the 5th and 12th is where I think the 0.008" makes a difference .

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Post subject: Re: String Buzz After Fret Level
Posted: Thu Aug 10, 2017 4:47 pm
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Well, a small update on all of this. I stopped by the store where I purchased it to get some strings and talked to the guy I bought it from about the situation. He told me to bring it in so he could look at the truss rod as that was concerning him. Upon inspecting it, he agreed it was maxed out and should have more play in it as it couldn't be tightened anymore. He said he will call Fender tomorrow to see about a replacement neck as it should be covered under warranty.

Not sure what happened during the fret level that caused the truss rod to max out. I'll be waiting for his call tomorrow. Hopefully it works out and it'll mostly solve both issues.


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Post subject: Re: String Buzz After Fret Level
Posted: Thu Aug 10, 2017 6:55 pm
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Have you tried a little more relief? Just a hair more than .010" with the action at 5/64". Also check the nut, strings E to G could be cut to low.


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Post subject: Re: String Buzz After Fret Level
Posted: Thu Aug 10, 2017 8:03 pm
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I'll give it a shot. Wouldn't a nut problem cause a buzz when the string is played open as well? It only happens when it's fretted. On every fret until the last one. I'm tempted to test a temporary shim in the neck pocket on the side towards the headstock to inscrease the break angle over those higher frets to see if it still buzzes. It wouldn't be permanent, but it should let me know if it is indeed the frets. Am I correct in this line of thinking? Depending on what Fender says, I may be getting a new neck due to the truss rod issue as it's under warranty, but this will be good knowledge to have regardless.


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Post subject: Re: String Buzz After Fret Level
Posted: Fri Aug 11, 2017 12:18 am
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I really think this is getting all over the place. Several pros with different opinions and diagnosis, then you doing changes, then us on the forum trying to guess what's wrong with the filtered info...

At this point, I suggest you take the guitar to a certified Fender representative for a full checkup, and play your other guitars while this one's in the shop. If the truss rod really is maxed out, that's a major problem on a Bi-Flex™. Otherwise, the frets still may be off, the neck angle may have its part in the equasion - and so on...

And: apologies if this sounds harsh, I'm really just trying to suggest the best solution I can think of.

https://support.fender.com/hc/en-us/art ... -serviced-


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Post subject: Re: String Buzz After Fret Level
Posted: Fri Aug 11, 2017 5:28 am
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Quote:
to see about a replacement neck
Remember that a new neck will give you a new serial number. Fender will supply paperwork showing the original year/serial number, and the new one, but you might find it affects the value of your Strat in the future. If possible, I'd insist on a replacement Strat.

I only say this as I've just bought a cheap Strat where this has happened. I don't care personally, but you might!

Cheers - Peter.


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Post subject: Re: String Buzz After Fret Level
Posted: Fri Aug 11, 2017 5:48 am
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No worries at all. I appreciate all the suggestions. Everything I'm doing is reversible (changing saddle heights and what truss rod relief I'm able to change). The guitar buzzed so I brought it to a Fender tech that will work on frets as he and a tech nearby determined I had multiple high frets with a fret rocker. I also had checked with a rocker before taking it to them so I had an idea of what's going on. The fret level performed by the certified tech did not help as I still had buzz and the last two frets were still high. Before he performed the fret level he had to set it up to Fender specs as it was a hoop he needed to jump through before doing any warranty work.

Since it still buzzed I lowered the saddles to a height I liked because it wasn't creating the buzz, it was still there at Fender specs. I tried adjusting the relief and found I couldn't tighten the truss rod. I tried raising the action, etc. as suggested by members here. I really appreciate the suggestions offered. So I set it back to Fender specs and took it to the shop I purchased it from as the truss rod concerned me. The truss rod had more play before the fret level - not sure what happened. I'm not blaming anyone.

The tech at the shop, who is Fender certified but doesn't work on frets (which is why I took it elsewhere) was most concerned with the truss rod. So he said he'll contact Fender about a warranty replacement neck. That seems to be the bigger issue at the moment as the neck will only loosen now. The only tech around here that will do extensive work like lifting the fretboard and replacing the rod is not Fender certified. He suggested I take it to a certified tech when I brought it to him when I was concerned about the frets. He was one of the techs to determine the frets were high with a rocker. I appreciated his honesty rather than trying to make a dollar. And as this is a new guitar it all falls under warranty (fret and rod issues). In be meantime I was still fiddling with seeing if it was in fact a high fret because why not, it's good knowledge and I kept getting suggestions.

Hope that might help clear things up. Again, I very much appreciate the help offered here. I'm anticipating a call today about the neck replacement and what may happen. I'm not too concerned about the value of the guitar here on out. It's mine, will stay mine, and I just want it to play. Plus, I like the grain pattern in the Sunburst.


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