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Post subject: Improving my clean tone
Posted: Thu Aug 10, 2017 12:20 am
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I'm looking to upgrade a few things in my rig and I need some help with what to upgrade or whether to even upgrade at all. I know the majority of your tone comes from your fingers which is why I practice without an amp but when I plug in to jam, my tone seems to lack that clean crunch sound. I'm using a Marshall mg15cfx which I know is the main reason why my tone doesn't sound the way I want it to because it's a solid state amp. I'm trying to achieve a high gain clean sound with heavy low end. I'd love to get close to john frusciantes mothers milk/ bssm era tone with his cbs strats. I'm playing a mexi standard strat which sounds pretty good so I'm wondering where to start with looking into a new amp. I play funk/rock and blues and I can get both the bluesy and funk tones just by selecting different pickups. I'm leaning towards Marshall but I don't know where to start. Preferably under $1000 which I know will limit my options. Can a 15 watt head be driven like a 100 watt one. I play at pretty low volumes also. I'm sorry for how much of a mess my discription is but can someone shed some light on what to look for and what I need to know about pre amp and power amp specs and how it will effect my tone. Thanks for any information.


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Post subject: Re: Improving my clean tone
Posted: Thu Aug 10, 2017 12:26 am
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I also want an amp that will breakup at lower volumes but I'm not sure what the difference is when you drive power amp vs preamp and how it will effect the tone. I know I should be posting this on a Marshall forum but I can't be bothered logging in and creating an account. I just need a complete explanation on what i should look for and what different specs do. Thankyou!


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Post subject: Re: Improving my clean tone
Posted: Thu Aug 10, 2017 1:59 am
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Dude, with due respects, are you sure this isn't another of your wild goose chase threads?

There seems way too many wrong but clever phrases and inferences in your question to suggest you know nothing about nothing; which is what you are trying to suggest.

If, indeed, you do know nothing about nothing I would suggest spend half an hour on YouTube searching amp tones and anything else you can find about setting up amps. Perhaps then you can ask a more specific question that we can answer.

The answer to your original question is 42.

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Post subject: Re: Improving my clean tone
Posted: Thu Aug 10, 2017 3:54 am
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"a high gain clean sound...."

these are opposite ends of the tone curve.

practicing unplugged might be good for some of the finer techniques you are trying to develop, but it's really not going to do much for developing tone and the dynamics of working the pickups and what ever your amp is. if you're not happy with how your amp sounds, or you've out grown its usefulness, accept that for what it is, and start looking at replacing it.

If you're looking for something that breaks up a lower volumes, that points you to a low wattage tube amp.

There are many amps out there that can be switched to run in various wattage modes. Look at some of those.

Go here: https://www.youtube.com/results?search_ ... one+lesson

there's a few pretty good clips about different techniques you can use to find some of the tones that you might be hearing in your head. Most of these are done with the guitar plugged straight into a low wattage amp (mostly fender tweeds) which I think at the end of the day, is what you're after.

no one can really answer this question but you. We all hear something different with respect to the sounds we are looking for and we spend a lot of effort, time, and money to find it.

so for you, the hunt is on...


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Post subject: Re: Improving my clean tone
Posted: Thu Aug 10, 2017 6:18 am
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Fruciante's tone might not be as bass-heavy as you think. Listen again. There needs to be room for Flea. Also be aware Fruciante is known to turn down the treble on his amp.

That said, first I'd recommend you quit playing unplugged. I tried that too for a while and all it did was foster bad habits. You get sort of a slappy, loudest-output technique that doesn't translate well to playing with an amp.

If you really want a Marshall, the DSL-40C is highly regarded and has a good master volume. Look for one with a Creamback.

Personally, I'm quite happy with my Katana 50. It is excellent at sane home volumes.


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Post subject: Re: Improving my clean tone
Posted: Thu Aug 10, 2017 8:07 am
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Wayne2 wrote:
That said, first I'd recommend you quit playing unplugged. I tried that too for a while and all it did was foster bad habits. You get sort of a slappy, loudest-output technique that doesn't translate well to playing with an amp.


100% Agree!

Also w/ the suggestion for the DSL40..


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Post subject: Re: Improving my clean tone
Posted: Thu Aug 10, 2017 10:11 am
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I agree that playing unplugged has very limited usefulness.
Many people like to argue that playing unplugged gives a better idea of a guitar's resonance capabilities.
I counter that by stating the more accurate truth.
It indicates the guitar's unplugged resonance capabilities.
Introduce pickups and an amp to the equation and it's a different animal.

I also agree that the tones described are mutually exclusive.
Clean and crunch are opposites.
Obviously.

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Post subject: Re: Improving my clean tone
Posted: Thu Aug 10, 2017 11:43 am
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Quote:
John Sims wrote:
The answer to your original question is 42.

I saw what you did there, John. So long and thanks for all the fish. :wink:


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Post subject: Re: Improving my clean tone
Posted: Thu Aug 10, 2017 11:48 am
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Pudbert wrote:
Quote:
John Sims wrote:
The answer to your original question is 42.

I saw what you did there, John. So long and thanks for all the fish. :wink:


You are obviously a man who knows where his towel is. :D

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Post subject: Re: Improving my clean tone
Posted: Sat Aug 12, 2017 2:14 am
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Coming back to the 'clean tone' thing (sorry!), I rarely play clean, preferring some drive to the sound and cleaning it up via the Strat volume control.

However, if I do play purely through the clean channel of my Rectoverb 25 with the Strat volume fully up, the top E (and to some extent the B) sounds 'scratchy' (best I can describe it) and too trebly. Almost offensive! So I turn off the amp Presence but if I turn the Treble down a bit as well, it's all too muffled, especially when I add in the OD or distortion pedals.

This happens with any S/C Strat, regardless of p/ups, when using the bridge p/up. Is it my ears? Is it the (E flat-tuned) 9's? Perhaps I should try a 10 top E? Is it technique? - I am a heavy-handed player.

Appreciate this is a VERY basic question, but as the OP was talking about clean tone, I thought I'd chip in!

Thanks - Peter.


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Post subject: Re: Improving my clean tone
Posted: Sat Aug 12, 2017 4:44 am
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Turn the power section up and forget trying to dime the preamp.
You can always hit the front of the amp with a dirt pedal when you want crunchy sounds.

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Post subject: Re: Improving my clean tone
Posted: Sat Aug 12, 2017 4:45 am
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You also need a better amp


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Post subject: Re: Improving my clean tone
Posted: Sat Aug 12, 2017 9:06 am
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I'm not doing anything with the preamp, Chris. I'm talking about using the Mesa clean channel, which I understand has always been based on a Fender sound? I get my dirt from pedals - I'm just not using them in this instance. I've either turned them off or gone straight into the amp - makes no difference.

This started for me when I got the Fat 50's with my new Strat - just thought I'd try the pristine clean sound which I thought they'd probably be good for. My other s/c Strats have bridge p/ups which I wouldn't expect to be great clean (and they're not).

Secondly - a better amp? Mesa Rectoverb 25 combo sits fairly well up the scale, no? I think it's a fantastic little amp! I wouldn't change it for a Mexican-made amp for half the price, plus I've watched your video and I don't hear the top E played clean, like I'm talking about...?

Having a look around the 'net reveals a myriad of possible causes. Think I'll forget it and go back to knocking the volume back a touch on cleanish settings! Obviously turning the bridge tone down a bit does the job as well, but at the expense of the mixed tone (and distorted tone).

But thanks for looking at my probably-worthless query! Cheers - Peter.


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Post subject: Re: Improving my clean tone
Posted: Sat Aug 12, 2017 10:06 am
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I was interested in that amp at one time.
I wouldn't call the clean channel of the RectoVerb 25 exactly clean.
There was not a lot of headroom on that one when I tried it.
None of the 25 watt versions of Mesa amps I have tried were very clean.

It's a perfectly good upper-scale amplifier; just not the best at clean headroom.
I think something that uses Mesa's power-scaling would be better suited, for me at least.
50 or 60 watts on the clean channel and 20 or 25 on the dirty channel.

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Post subject: Re: Improving my clean tone
Posted: Sat Aug 12, 2017 10:57 am
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I'm old school, and in that view, Mesa amps are famous for gains, not cleans. And their heritage sort of lingers in Mesa's paradigm - the Rectoverb re: Rectifier, and quoting the manual, "CLEAN: This is the lowest gain circuit of the Recto-Verb 25’s four modes"... I don't know the RV25, but that's what I'd expect from a Mesa. :wink:

And this is not a good/bad comparison.

But to Peter S's issue: If you already have the bridge pup lowered on the treble side, how about an EQ pedal to tame some of the scratchy/offensive you don't like? And, you could concentrate on the pick hand tech for a while - with a responsive amp, you can really make a difference just by a hit/caress the strings change.


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