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Post subject: Fender Play
Posted: Fri Jul 07, 2017 10:25 am
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Seriously! ? $20 a month? :shock:

Do you not have enough of my money already? And why would I pay $240 a year for something I can achieve for free by trawling YouTube.

As a guitar manufacturer I think Fender would be far better employed in focusing on manufacturing guitars rather than waste their time in trying to think up new and exciting ways to relieve their customers of their disposable income on fluff.

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Fender Play Winter Sale 2020
Post subject: Re: Fender Play
Posted: Fri Jul 07, 2017 11:13 am
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John Sims wrote:
Seriously! ? $20 a month? :shock:

Do you not have enough of my money already? And why would I pay $240 a year for something I can achieve for free by trawling YouTube.

As a guitar manufacturer I think Fender would be far better employed in focusing on manufacturing guitars rather than waste their time in trying to think up new and exciting ways to relieve their customers of their disposable income on fluff.


+1

Somebody in Fender's boardroom has watched "Field Of Dreams" too many times......

"If you offer it, they will buy."

:lol:

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Post subject: Re: Fender Play
Posted: Fri Jul 07, 2017 11:31 am
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John Sims wrote:
Seriously! ? $20 a month? :shock:

Yeah, that is twice the price of most of the competition, and they get berated for being too expensive. With YouTube being "free", I can't see this taking off.

Now if it had features like actually listening to your playing and making recommendations based on that (like Rocksmith attempts), I'd see it being worth a $69 lifetime purchase or $5 per month. But this is appears to be just a video playing app with exclusive content, and seems way overpriced compared to the competition.


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Post subject: Re: Fender Play
Posted: Tue Jul 11, 2017 9:55 am
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They would be better off giving it away. More beginners who bought Squires low end guitars just to see if they liked it, may continue, than they might go out and spend more money on a better guitar once they realize how much fun one can have playing.
My first electric was a $240 model Epiphone SG just to see if I was going to stick with it, no sense spending a lot of money for something that could end up under my bed or in a closet. I than put in better pickups and electronic tuners, and bridge, but as I progressed needed a better ( I also wanted single coils) guitar, by than I knew I was enjoying the guitar, and pulled the trigger for an American Standard Strat and I love it and glad I spent the money. I used the internet to learn how to play, If fender had free lessons I would have used them, as a matter of fact they may of had some starter lessons I remember looking at.
mud


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Post subject: Re: Fender Play
Posted: Tue Jul 11, 2017 10:31 am
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mud wrote:
They would be better off giving it away. More beginners who bought Squires low end guitars just to see if they liked it, may continue, than they might go out and spend more money on a better guitar once they realize how much fun one can have playing...


That makes a great deal more sense. If someone has scraped together $100 for their first guitar they are hardly going to be in a position to cough up $20 a month on something as transient as Internet lessons.

Providing the lessons for free generates brand loyalty and will add the person to the advertising data base. It will also ensure they return to the site regularly for further lessons allowing further advertising opportunities. A dynamic site which people return to constantly, and tell their friends about, is a marketing departments dream.

If it is too expensive to do for free then do it cheaper.

And as for $19.99, quite frankly I consider that an insult to my intelligence. If it is $20, just be honest and don't pretend it is less.

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Post subject: Re: Fender Play
Posted: Tue Jul 11, 2017 11:40 am
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Here's another idea for Fender marketing department, free for use (well, I wouldn't mind a Capri Orange Duo-Sonic™...):
Make Fender Play free for anyone buying a new Squier or Fender instrument and registering it, thus becoming a mail list recipient.
Free forever {= whilst (sorry, Brad) the app withstands time}, or free for the global limited warranty period (that's two years, you lazy ones who havent read the Jan 2017 Revision), take your pick.
That might help catch those innocent ones at the metamorphosis phase (toddler to punkrocker).

Us old folks (I mean myself, not the previous posters in this topic) are a) already caught, b) not in the Fender Play target group, and c) too savvy and/or skimpy to fall for the 'pay us money monthly' ideology.


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Post subject: Re: Fender Play
Posted: Tue Jul 11, 2017 5:36 pm
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jmattis wrote:
Make Fender Play free for anyone buying a new Squier or Fender instrument and registering it, thus becoming a mail list recipient.
Free forever {= whilst (sorry, Brad) the app withstands time}, or free for the global limited warranty period (that's two years, you lazy ones who havent read the Jan 2017 Revision), take your pick.

That would work in some parts of the world, like the US, but not others, like a few Northern European countries. Some places, the word "free" cannot be tied to any purchase, so they'd either have to (a) offer it free to everybody, or because it's not integrated, (b) make it a bundle where the customer can choose to unbundle and save some amount, even if it's a low amount.

(Not to mention that the global limited warranty is completely void in some countries. I know countries where the minimum required by law is two years of full warranty and five years or more redress rights (comparable to U.S. limited warranty) depending on the expected lifetime.)


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Post subject: Re: Fender Play
Posted: Tue Jul 11, 2017 11:58 pm
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Aw dawg, you're killing my brain puppy before house training even started... (And way before they thankfully sent me that gratitude expression Duo-Sonic™ I so discreetly münchened.)

arth1 wrote:
not others, like a few Northern European countries

Living in Northern Europe, I'm wondering which countries you're referring to..?
But besides the geography, bundles/packs are already in use @Fender; from beginner Squier level to CS instruments.
And to broaden the perspective, when I buy a phone, tablet, PC, printer (...), I get [ironic]a couple of[/ironic] apps bundled in the gidget - no discount offered for opting out of using those stay in touch with your friends memory eaters.

The global limited warranty was written in italic for exactly those reasons you mention; my ironic evil twin again...


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Post subject: Re: Fender Play
Posted: Wed Jul 12, 2017 10:19 am
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jmattis wrote:
Living in Northern Europe, I'm wondering which countries you're referring to..?

Scandinavian countries have regulations on use of the word "free". And all EEC countries including EU have redress rights that go on top of warranties. It's not well known to the public, because the manufacturers and stores don't want it to be known. But if the warranty has expired and the goods either were marketed as or could reasonably expected to last for considerably longer, you can claim redress rights after the warranty has expired. The main difference from the law-mandated warranty period is that the onus shifts to you - you then have to show that it was due to manufacturing and not abuse, and that it was bought with a reasonable expectancy of lasting considerably longer than the warranty. But yeah, if your window frames fall apart after five years, or your guitar or fridge disintegrates after three years, you can still get it fixed or replaced.

jmattis wrote:
But besides the geography, bundles/packs are already in use @Fender; from beginner Squier level to CS instruments.

Bundles are fine, if either the bundled gear is available separately, or it's an integrated package where the components are needed. A "play electric guitar" bundle requires both a guitar, amp and cables, so that's a natural bundle. And you can buy the components separately, and don't have to buy the bundle.

I think the point that the EU legislation tries to make with unbundling rights might be that you cannot upsell someone by only offering something as part of a bundle deal, forcing the consumer to pay more by buying expensive item A and get B for "free" when they only need B. And you also cannot stifle competition by foisting something on every buyer as a mandatory bundle, when they might have preferred to buy a competing product.

If I remember correctly, Windows XP fell afoul of EU bundling regulations, which is why a Windows version without IE had to be provided in Europe to anyone who wanted it unbundled.


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Post subject: Re: Fender Play
Posted: Wed Jul 12, 2017 1:47 pm
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We're once again drifting dangerously far from the topic, whilst (sorry again, Brad) being really boring.

The short short version:
No, my suggestion above does not conflict with EU/Northern Europe/Scandinavia legislation.

The longer version:
You sort of have the idea, but with a distinct 'US legal doctrine' kind of filter, which makes your description of our consumer laws seems somewhat strange to me. As background, a) I'm Scandinavian, and b) I've worked on this branch. :wink:
Here, a manufacturer's/seller's warranty is considered an extra benefit to the consumer. It can not diminish any coverage given in the consumer legislation, only add to it.
Thus, a product's expected life span is not controlled/evaluated by what any warranty dictates. In general, in consumer goods, a life span of a product is "what can reasonably be expected from such products". That is of course a variable, so the legislation has set some time spans for ease of process.
The burden of proof, within the (by law/by warranty) given time limits falls to the manufacturer/seller in both types of coverage. The presumption is, the product was defective; the manufacturer/seller has to prove otherwise if he/she/it wishes to skip the liability. This can be altered by warranty clauses - but not in a way which conflicts the consumer rights in the legislation.

On bundles, packs and other freebies (free microwave oven if you buy a car), those are in general (the children have some extra protection) allowed - regardless of if one can buy the products separately or not.

The Win(XP) case you remember was about using a dominant market position in operating systems of to reach a similar position in browsers. As the result, IE was still included in the bundle but we had the annoying BrowserChoise program, running till 2014... :lol:


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Post subject: Re: Fender Play
Posted: Wed Jul 26, 2017 10:54 am
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I'm relativley new to guitars, and was initially excited to hear Fender was in the process of making online lessons available to us, but am no way inclined to pay $20USD for something I can find for free elsewhere. I'm not sure how to start this, but I'm wondering if a worldwide/forum wide petition might not show a sign of unity and force Fender to offer Fender Play at no cost, to all. Regardless of registering a new guitar or not.


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Post subject: Re: Fender Play
Posted: Wed Jul 26, 2017 3:32 pm
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I learned a long time ago, not to sign up for anything free that becomes paid after a period of time. The info on how to cancel is never as prominent as how to signup!


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Post subject: Re: Fender Play
Posted: Wed Jul 26, 2017 6:12 pm
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Seems like a reasonable thing to offer. If you don't like the price don't pay it.

I doubt anyone involved would otherwise be building guitars.


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Post subject: Re: Fender Play
Posted: Thu Jul 27, 2017 8:34 am
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DarkPenguin wrote:
Seems like a reasonable thing to offer. If you don't like the price don't pay it.

I doubt anyone involved would otherwise be building guitars.


This is something of the issue. It has nothing to do with building guitars and, in my mind is almost detrimental to the brand in coming across as a money grabbing behemoth just trying to think of new and different ways to separate me from my money.

They are trying to couch it as being a service to guitarists. It could be something which could add value to the brand and, by harvesting peoples on line details, provide significant marketing opportunities.

However, they ruin any good will it may generate by charging a not insignificant sum for this service.

Were one able to dig deeper it will probably come to light that it is either run by a franchise or certainly an isolated cost centre which has little or no benefit to the core product aside bolstering the bottom line. Such balance sheet add ons seldom seem to benefit anyone other than the shareholders and don't tend to filter down stream to improve the manufacture of the product.

I know it is a stupid sentiment but you would like to think that the people at Fender have a passion for the product. This just comes across as a passion for making money.

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Post subject: Re: Fender Play
Posted: Thu Jul 27, 2017 7:11 pm
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I think I'll sign up for it. See what it is.


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