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Post subject: Re: Classic Player 60s Strat discontinued?
Posted: Fri Jun 09, 2017 12:37 am
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DougMen wrote:
.... I also think they're made way better than the Classic or even the new Deluxe series, which I find also better quality than the Classic series...


Yup I sure that would be the case. Same factory, same equipment, same production line, same people.

With any product made with natural materials there are going to be variations. But, could it be the elements which more accurately represent the original 50's & 60's guitars that are jarring with you. A thin fret will seem sharper that a fat fret, folded case machine heads seem cheaper than cast case...etc.

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Post subject: Re: Classic Player 60s Strat discontinued?
Posted: Fri Jun 09, 2017 2:28 am
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jmattis wrote:
Edit: Guessing you meant "were never made in Japan" but made a Freudian typo... :wink:


Duly corrected, sir.

:oops:

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Post subject: Re: Classic Player 60s Strat discontinued?
Posted: Fri Jun 09, 2017 2:55 am
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Classic Player Strat 2 point trems are Ping PW-29 with a zinc alloy block not US Vintage. Post spacing is the same as American Standard.

Classic Strats and Teles have been and are made in Japan.
Here's a couple
https://www.gak.co.uk/en/fender-fsr-jap ... rst/130062

https://www.randtmusic.co.uk/products/f ... 2750557514


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Post subject: Re: Classic Player 60s Strat discontinued?
Posted: Fri Jun 09, 2017 3:06 am
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64Galaxie wrote:
Classic Strats and Teles have been and are made in Japan.
Here's a couple
https://www.gak.co.uk/en/fender-fsr-jap ... rst/130062

https://www.randtmusic.co.uk/products/f ... 2750557514


Those are *NOT* Fender's "Classic Series" instruments.

Arjay

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Post subject: Re: Classic Player 60s Strat discontinued?
Posted: Fri Jun 09, 2017 3:47 am
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The Japanese ones were made throughout the1990s, and they may not have been called the Classic series but they were the same specs, basically Japanese versions of the 57 and 62 Vintage Reissues. Also were available with Foto-Flame tops.


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Post subject: Re: Classic Player 60s Strat discontinued?
Posted: Fri Jun 09, 2017 3:54 am
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64Galaxie's first link is officially an ST68-{¥¥(¥)}TX, and the second is a TL52-(¥¥)SPL...
And Japanese specs are not same even with different year MIJ models, let alone with MIM's.

So, I tend to agree with Arjay here.
I don't remember ever seeing "Classic Series" model name in any official (Fender/FenderJapan) use with MIJ Fenders.
Or "Reissue", for that matter.


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Post subject: Re: Classic Player 60s Strat discontinued?
Posted: Fri Jun 09, 2017 5:08 am
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64Galaxie wrote:
Classic Player Strat 2 point trems are Ping PW-29 with a zinc alloy block not US Vintage. Post spacing is the same as American Standard.

Classic Strats and Teles have been and are made in Japan...

https://www.randtmusic.co.uk/products/f ... 2750557514


Let me just climb onto my soap box. It is this that annoys the XXXX (insert as appropriate) out of me. How is that in any way, shape, or form a 50's Classic aside the neck configuration?

This is how it works, is it? You get any Strat or Tele, of any specification you care to choose, put a 50's or 60's type neck on it (it doesn't even need to be an accurate recreation of a 50's or 60's neck) and immediately it is a Classic 50's or 60's something or another. What absolute BS!

I guess "Classic" sounds more appealing than "Parts Bin Mongrel". We have SLO's perhaps we could also have PBM's?

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Post subject: Re: Classic Player 60s Strat discontinued?
Posted: Fri Jun 09, 2017 6:49 am
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John Sims wrote:
This is how it works, is it? You get any Strat or Tele, of any specification you care to choose, put a 50's or 60's type neck on it (it doesn't even need to be an accurate recreation of a 50's or 60's neck) and immediately it is a Classic 50's or 60's something or another. What absolute BS!

I guess "Classic" sounds more appealing than "Parts Bin Mongrel". We have SLO's perhaps we could also have PBM's?


Fender itself periodically builds "PBM's".

Anybody remember the FSR MIM 57/60 Strat......?

FSR 5760 Stratocaster, 2-Tone Sunburst, 07/2007, made in Mexico.

Model Name: 5760 Stratocaster (AIMM)
Model Number: 013-0014-(303)
Series: Classic Series
Body: Alder
Neck: Maple “C” Shape, (Polyurethane Finish)
Fingerboard: Rosewood (7.25” Radius/184 mm)
No. of Frets: 21 Vintage Style
Scale Length: 25.5” (648 mm)
Width @ Nut: 1.650” (42 mm0
Hardware: Chrome
Machine Heads: Fender®/Ping® Vintage Style Tuning Machines
Bridge: Vintage Style Synchronized Tremolo
Pickguard: 1-Ply Parchment
Pickups: 3 Single Coils with Staggered Pole Pieces, Alnico Magnets, Aged Covers
Pickup Switching: 5-Position Blade:
Position 1. Bridge Pickup
Position 2. Bridge and Middle Pickup
Position 3. Middle Pickup
Position 4. Middle and Neck Pickup
Position 5. Neck Pickup
Controls: Master Volume, Tone 1. (Neck Pickup), Tone 2. (Middle Pickup)
Colors: (303) 2-Color Sunburst,
(Polyester Finish)
Strings: Fender Super 250R (.010 to .046) Nickel Plated Steel pn#073-0250-006
Unique Features: ‘50s Body with ‘60s Neck,
Aged Knobs and Switch Tip
Source: Mexico
Accessories: Deluxe Fender Gig Bag
U.S. MSRP: $974.99
INTRODUCED: 7/2007
COMMENTS: Special run for AIMM dealers in 7/2007,
Combining desirable features of both 50’s and 60’s era Stratocasters, the 5760 Strat features a 2-color sunburst alder body, vintage style pickups with staggered AlNico 5 polepieces, rosewood fretboard, and vintage hardware.

Arjay

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Post subject: Re: Classic Player 60s Strat discontinued?
Posted: Fri Jun 09, 2017 7:21 am
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Aahhhhh...but I want one of those. That could easily be a "real" guitar from the turn of the decade (well sort of, 5 position switch excepted) . That would be cool.

These modern guitars with some arbitrary vintage spec something added to make them "Classic" is just ridiculous.

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Post subject: Re: Classic Player 60s Strat discontinued?
Posted: Fri Jun 09, 2017 7:29 am
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John Sims wrote:
These modern guitars with some arbitrary vintage spec something added to make them "Classic" is just ridiculous.


Ah, yes......neo/retro re-issues.

:lol:

Arjay

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Post subject: Re: Classic Player 60s Strat discontinued?
Posted: Fri Jun 09, 2017 8:11 pm
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I just want to clarify what I previously said. It's not that I don't like vintage style necks with 7.25" radius and small frets. I love the Japanese and American vintage style necks. It's just that the Mexican vintage type necks don't seem to have as good of fret work as Japanese or American vintage style necks, or other Mexican models with more modern necks with flatter radius and larger frets. I think everything else about the Mexican Classic series is first rate. As far as "same line, same people" without knowing the details of how the Ensenada factory is laid out, we don't know. It's a huge facility that puts out something like 200 guitars a day. With that kind of production, it's very possible that there's a separate line for the standard series, one for the classic series, one for the deluxe series, and one for the classic player series. We don't know. And just because Fender didn't call the Japanese ones Classic or Vintage Reissue, they were still vintage style necks with 7.25" radius, small frets, vintage style tuners, glossy, tinted v shape necks for the maple and c shaped for the rosewood ones, with vintage style bridges, and staggered magnet alnico 5 pickups. Finally, if you don't agree with me, that's OK. It doesn't invalidate my opinion or yours.


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Post subject: Re: Classic Player 60s Strat discontinued?
Posted: Sat Jun 10, 2017 2:21 am
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On the series names, specs etc: There are so many alternative facts about Fender&Fender/Japan guitars in the web that I try to keep things correct every chance I get. Plus I'm nitpicky.
But it's not a personal attack towards anybody, and I try to differentiate facts (like serial names, specs, pickups) from opinions (like, MIA better than MIJ better than MIM better than MIC....

Googling 'fender ensenada factory tour' will give some insight on what happens, here's one example:


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Post subject: Re: Classic Player 60s Strat discontinued?
Posted: Sat Jun 10, 2017 4:32 am
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Cool link that man.

My browser subsequently took me to:-

https://youtu.be/xcCc3CIQABQ

Obviously some time ago but interesting in the way CNC machines have changed the production process.

In the older video you see a lot of holes drilled by hand using jigs. A great deal more of the shaping is also done by hand. These operations all have the potential for tiny variations which (assuming done correctly) wont happen on a CNCed part.

What is also interesting is the more obvious mechanised fret setting in the earlier video. While it makes for better marketing suggesting the frets are set by hand I would be very surprised if the same, or similar, mechanisation isn't employed currently.

Mechanisation doesn't necessarily guarantee accuracy. If you get crud on the template of a copy router it isn't going to cut as accuracy as a clean template etc. It can also spoil more pieces at a time. A CNC router should greatly reduce this. The bushes in a drilling template ware over time and become less accurate etc. This would perhaps explain how "Back in the day" you would have good and bad guitars.

Today it is know that, even the cheaper guitars, have a much higher standard of fit and quality than a lot of guitars produced even 20 years ago.

Fortunately there are variables in guitar manufacture such as wood selection, component choice, amount of hand finishing etc, which allow Fender such a vast range of pricing/marketing opportunities. There are less opportunities to vary quality of manufacture though.

You can pay through the nose for a Custom Shop, built by hand using the original jigs, guitar. And what you are actually paying for is the variations in accuracy that are inherent in this form of construction. You then pay for the skill of the craftsman in working around these inaccuracies and making two parts that don't necessarily fit ultimately fit together.

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