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Post subject: Fender Finishes on 50s Stratocasters.
Posted: Sat May 06, 2017 6:23 pm
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All my references I have and I have a lot, state that Nitrocellulose finishes were used exclusively in the 50's.
However,
Today I saw on Fender.com that they used Acrylic lacquer also since its introduction in the 50's !!! ??
This could explain why the 1954 body I have does not respond to chemical tests for Nitrocellulose.

From Fender.com
"https://www.fender.com/articles/tech-talk/the-science-and-style-of-finishes"
"
Nitrocellulose lacquer (“nitro”) was the finish most often used during Fender’s original 1950s and ’60s golden age, although acrylic lacquers were also used

"


From Wikipedia:
"
Acrylic lacquers
Lacquers using acrylic resin, a synthetic polymer, were developed in the 1950s. Acrylic resin is colourless, transparent thermoplastic, obtained by the polymerization of derivatives of acrylic acid.
"

So there must be a lllooooottt.. of 50's and 60's strats out there that people think has been refinished since it is not nitrocellulose, and I must have one.

Another Refence on Fenders sourcing of Colors:
"Take the first color, Lake Placid Blue, for example. The paint type is "Lucite", which is DuPont's brand name for acrylic lacquer. The number, 2876L next to "Lucite", is the DuPont paint code identifying the paint formula for Lake Placid Blue (note some colors are "Duco", which is DuPont's brand name for their nitrocellulose lacquer). "

This means that the color on my guitar might have been DuPont Lucite!
So certain colors were Nitro and other colors were Lucite, due to availability of the color.
That seems to be the reason Leo used Lucite.

Another Wikipedia Quote
"One of the earliest uses of Lucite was in windshields for fighter planes during World War II"

So Natural questions are:

1) When did Lucite appear on the market. A really qualified answer would be appreciated. the web is all over the place with this, otherwise I have to contact DuPont.

2) Anyone have any information on the earliest use of Acrylic at fender, although this is a bit fluid, as Leo would try new finishes and sell the guitar with the new finish without continuing with it in production. That is just reality of business.

3) I also cannot find when acrylic Lacquer (as sprayable paint, contrast to question 1) was introduced on the US market.


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Post subject: Re: Fender Finishes on 50s Stratocasters.
Posted: Sun May 07, 2017 12:59 am
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Quote:
What Fender really did was use the colors as available from DuPont, be it acrylic or nitrocellulose. But they always used clear lacquer that was nitrocellulose based.
Guitarhq.com Fender Custom Colors


On your specific questions, #1 is answered by DuPont themselves; "During the 1950s, DuPont developed two distinct lines of acrylic resin coatings: Lucite acrylic automobile finish lacquers, marketed commercially in 1956, and Lucite acrylic paints, introduced to consumers in 1960."
On #2, I don't think a reliable answer can be found.
On #3, I have no idea, not even for a suggestion where to start searching...


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Post subject: Re: Fender Finishes on 50s Stratocasters.
Posted: Sun May 07, 2017 3:58 am
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I think a safe bet would be that Fender's use of acrylic lacquers began with their "official" introduction of custom Duco colors as a regular catalog option. The paints themselves were new, having been developed earlier in the decade for automotive applications.

Arjay

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Post subject: Re: Fender Finishes on 50s Stratocasters.
Posted: Sun May 07, 2017 12:17 pm
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One Reference Claims;

"In 1956 DuPont started using acrylic binders in their lacquer. This solved the yellowing problem, and to a large extent, the color retention problem too (acrylic is more UV resistant than celluloid). Also, since acrylic binders have better elasticity, the checking problem disappeared too."

So, I am sure Fender were using it in the 50's without really knowing since at least 1956 as Lake Placid Blue seemingly was always Acrylic.

My opinion would be "If it lasts on a car it would last on a guitar".. and I am sure that was what Fender followed too, so it is clear to me that they would be using acrylic as soon as it was available without possibly knowing.


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Post subject: Re: Fender Finishes on 50s Stratocasters.
Posted: Sun May 07, 2017 4:17 pm
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retnev wrote:
My opinion would be "If it lasts on a car it would last on a guitar".. and I am sure that was what Fender followed too, so it is clear to me that they would be using acrylic as soon as it was available without possibly knowing.


+1

I'm in total agreement. Leo was both pragmatic and practical -- he'd want his products to last as long as humanly possible.

Arjay

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Post subject: Re: Fender Finishes on 50s Stratocasters.
Posted: Sun May 07, 2017 9:01 pm
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retnev wrote:
..."If it lasts on a car it would last on a guitar"...


Much more of a protective primer under the cars finish, and way more coats of nitro on a car than a guitar. So it isn't really a valid comparison. :idea:

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Post subject: Re: Fender Finishes on 50s Stratocasters.
Posted: Sun May 07, 2017 10:32 pm
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shimmilou wrote:
retnev wrote:
..."If it lasts on a car it would last on a guitar"...


Much more of a protective primer under the cars finish, and way more coats of nitro on a car than a guitar. So it isn't really a valid comparison. :idea:


These wouldn't be required on a guitar since the instrument wouldn't be expected to "brave the elements" as with an automobile.

I believe the comparison is in fact valid (to a point).

Arjay

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Post subject: Re: Fender Finishes on 50s Stratocasters.
Posted: Sun May 07, 2017 11:19 pm
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retnev wrote:
I am sure Fender were using it in the 50's without really knowing since at least 1956 as Lake Placid Blue seemingly was always Acrylic.

The guitarHQ page I linked to has a table of "all" Fender custom colors at the time. The first year for Fender using Lucite is claimed to be 1960. So, IMHO, any earlier use remains unclear/unproven until a Lucite colored individual guitar made in the 1950's pops up somewhere.

On St. Leo's thinking I can't be sure, but it's quite possible he had a healthy suspicion towards 'new and improved' products at the time he was nearing his 50th birthday, and thus waited a couple of years before using this acrylic... :wink:


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