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Post subject: Tremolo Tuning - 2014 Deluxe
Posted: Mon Apr 24, 2017 7:08 pm
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Hi,
I have a 2014 Fender American Deluxe. It has the roller nut and locking tuners.
Surprisingly it doesn't keep tune a well as my 1997 with standard hardware. The instability is not at the nut end, but the bridge. When you bend the G and B strings, they go quite flat. They bounce back to pitch when the tremolo is used. This would be fine, but they are going noticeably flat in solos.
With this modern setup, I would have expected better.
There are no pings anywhere, so nothing seems to be sticking.
Any ideas would be appreciated.
Thanks, Andrew


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Post subject: Re: Tremolo Tuning - 2014 Deluxe
Posted: Thu Apr 27, 2017 12:22 am
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Any thoughts appreciated.


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Post subject: Re: Tremolo Tuning - 2014 Deluxe
Posted: Thu Apr 27, 2017 12:33 am
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Replys come slow, because the forum delays first post a few days.

Anyway, that's a setup problem - my first guess is, it's related to the trem springs / string pull balance. Bending strings -> trem flexes and gives in, releasing the bend -> trem doesn't pull back to zero position.

I have no idea on yout guitartechness, so I'll take the easy way out: have it set up by a good pro.


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Post subject: Re: Tremolo Tuning - 2014 Deluxe
Posted: Thu Apr 27, 2017 1:09 am
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, so I'll take the easy way out: have it set up by a good pro.[/quote]

Thanks. I've setup guitars for many years, not a pro, but not a novice. If the bridge was not coming back to position, then the other strings would go out. It is only happening on the ones I am bending.


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Post subject: Re: Tremolo Tuning - 2014 Deluxe
Posted: Thu Apr 27, 2017 1:30 am
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Are you absolutely sure it ain't the nut? Did you lube the rollers?

Quote:
not a pro, but not a novice

Don't take this as questioning your skills, but using a pro, especially for the 'initial setup for a new guitar' (or for a yearly checkup) is a good idea, for anyone. The best pro guitarists use pros...
Like I wrote, that problem is a setup problem.


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Post subject: Re: Tremolo Tuning - 2014 Deluxe
Posted: Thu Apr 27, 2017 1:50 am
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Slacken the strings right off, remove the tremolo springs, and lift the entire bridge assembly out of the guitar.
Inspect the knife edge points for any damage whatsoever.
Also inspect the bridge posts for signs of damage.
Report back with photos.

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Post subject: Re: Tremolo Tuning - 2014 Deluxe
Posted: Thu Apr 27, 2017 2:04 am
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stratmangler wrote:
Slacken the strings right off, remove the tremolo springs, and lift the entire bridge assembly out of the guitar.
Inspect the knife edge points for any damage whatsoever.
Also inspect the bridge posts for signs of damage.
Report back with photos.


+1

Also, when re-stringing the guitar make sure that the ball ends are fully seated into the trem block and that the headstock ends are correctly wrapped around the tuning posts. Check the tuner bushings as well to confirm that they're snug to the housings.

Arjay

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Post subject: Re: Tremolo Tuning - 2014 Deluxe
Posted: Thu Apr 27, 2017 2:29 am
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jmattis wrote:
Are you absolutely sure it ain't the nut? Did you lube the rollers?

Quote:
not a pro, but not a novice

Don't take this as questioning your skills, but using a pro, especially for the 'initial setup for a new guitar' (or for a yearly checkup) is a good idea, for anyone. The best pro guitarists use pros...
Like I wrote, that problem is a setup problem.


Thanks, I am certain it isn't at the headstock end. I can push down the offending string behind the nut and the string doesn't return to pitch, so there's no tension there. It does return to pitch when I slightly depress the arm.


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Post subject: Re: Tremolo Tuning - 2014 Deluxe
Posted: Thu Apr 27, 2017 2:31 am
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stratmangler wrote:
Slacken the strings right off, remove the tremolo springs, and lift the entire bridge assembly out of the guitar.
Inspect the knife edge points for any damage whatsoever.
Also inspect the bridge posts for signs of damage.
Report back with photos.


OK. Back soon.


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Post subject: Re: Tremolo Tuning - 2014 Deluxe
Posted: Thu Apr 27, 2017 2:58 am
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stratmangler wrote:
Slacken the strings right off,
Report back with photos.

I am struggling to work out how to add photos! But the bridge is off. The knife edges are as new, no wear or burs. The posts also look perfect. I have only had the guitar a couple of weeks, and it is new condition. Intonation, action and neck relief are perfect. Strings are new and stretched in. Ends are seated properly in the bridge.


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Post subject: Re: Tremolo Tuning - 2014 Deluxe
Posted: Thu Apr 27, 2017 3:08 am
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andrewbanker wrote:
can push down the offending string behind the nut and the string doesn't return to pitch, so there's no tension there. It does return to pitch when I slightly depress the arm.

If it doesn't return to pitch when you free it, the nut sticks.


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Post subject: Re: Tremolo Tuning - 2014 Deluxe
Posted: Thu Apr 27, 2017 3:13 am
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jmattis wrote:
Are you absolutely sure it ain't the nut? Did you lube the rollers?

Quote:
not a pro, but not a novice

Don't take this as questioning your skills, but using a pro, especially for the 'initial setup for a new guitar' (or for a yearly checkup) is a good idea, for anyone. The best pro guitarists use pros...
Like I wrote, that problem is a setup problem.


You are probably right. I reckon I've owned 20 strats over the years, and it's the first one where the issue hasn't been an obvious friction point. I use techs for fret dresses etc, but I've never needed to for anything else.


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Post subject: Re: Tremolo Tuning - 2014 Deluxe
Posted: Thu Apr 27, 2017 3:30 am
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jmattis wrote:
andrewbanker wrote:
can push down the offending string behind the nut and the string doesn't return to pitch, so there's no tension there. It does return to pitch when I slightly depress the arm.

If it doesn't return to pitch when you free it, the nut sticks.


Not sure I am with you there. If I bend a string, the guitar goes flat. If the problem was at the nut end, then there would be tension unreleased between the tuning keys to the end of the nut. If you push the string down behind the nut, it releases the tension, and should bring the string back to pitch. It's one of the first things I've seen techs do. Perhaps I am missing what you are saying.


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Post subject: Re: Tremolo Tuning - 2014 Deluxe
Posted: Thu Apr 27, 2017 3:55 am
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Yes, some language barrier here.
I thought you meant (in the part I quoted) that when you do a behind the nut string bend (open string), the string doesn't return to pitch.
You apparently meant a bent string which has gone flat, won't go back in tune even when you push it behind the nut.

So going back to my originals: bending a string makes the trem raise, which effectively makes strings go flat (e.g. if you play a bend plus an open string). Releasing the bend, the trem should pull back to zero point = tune. Yours doesn't. Ergo, IMHO, trem setup problem. The push-behind-nut-won't help issue is one side of the same; the trem needs a bit more help (tap to the trem arm or such) to go to tune.
I have no idea why only GB strings are the problem (Brexit related..?) - but most trem side corrections would face that same curiosity. Sometimes Strats are tricky...

If the guitar was on my table, I'd do a full setup from scratch, starting from the very basics (screws/nuts correct tightness, remembering truss rod and so on...). And maybe consider a different amount of trem springs - I feel that sometimes four looser springs give better results than three more tensioned, sometimes it's the opposite...


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Post subject: Re: Tremolo Tuning - 2014 Deluxe
Posted: Thu Apr 27, 2017 4:03 am
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jmattis wrote:
Yes, some language barrier here.
I thought you meant (in the part I quoted) that when you do a behind the nut string bend (open string), the string doesn't return to pitch.
You apparently meant a bent string which has gone flat, won't go back in tune even when you push it behind the nut.

So going back to my originals: bending a string makes the trem raise, which effectively makes strings go flat (e.g. if you play a bend plus an open string). Releasing the bend, the trem should pull back to zero point = tune. Yours doesn't. Ergo, IMHO, trem setup problem. The push-behind-nut-won't help issue is one side of the same; the trem needs a bit more help (tap to the trem arm or such) to go to tune.
I have no idea why only GB strings are the problem (Brexit related..?) - but most trem side corrections would face that same curiosity. Sometimes Strats are tricky...

If the guitar was on my table, I'd do a full setup from scratch, starting from the very basics (screws/nuts correct tightness, remembering truss rod and so on...). And maybe consider a different amount of trem springs - I feel that sometimes four looser springs give better results than three more tensioned, sometimes it's the opposite...


Thanks. That makes sence. I'll get it setup again. Tempermental things.
In the meantime I'll play my well behaved 6 screw strat!


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