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Post subject: Fender Stratocasters - Why So Difficult To Keep Their Tuning
Posted: Sat Mar 18, 2017 11:27 am
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I purchased a Squier Stratocaster a long time ago as a backup guitar in case something ever went wrong with my first guitar (a Tele which I had modded with B/G benders/Keith pegs for the E strings and later-period Joe Barden pickups). But, the only issue I ever had with the guitar was it's failure to stay in tune - especially when using the tremelo bar/whammy bar.

So....I know this may be a dumb question but - why do Strats have so much difficulty staying in tune rather than Telecasters??

Tony T.

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Post subject: Re: Fender Stratocasters - Why So Difficult To Keep Their Tu
Posted: Sat Mar 18, 2017 11:29 am
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Tony Trout wrote:
...especially when using the tremelo bar/whammy bar.


Asked and answered.

Arjay

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Post subject: Re: Fender Stratocasters - Why So Difficult To Keep Their Tu
Posted: Sat Mar 18, 2017 1:05 pm
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Also being a Squier it probably doesn't have particularly good tuners, especially if it was a bottom level one. The current, higher end squiers are very good on the other hand


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Post subject: Re: Fender Stratocasters - Why So Difficult To Keep Their Tu
Posted: Sat Mar 18, 2017 1:10 pm
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More moving parts. And of course, this isn't limited to Stratocasters - every tremolo/vibrato equipped guitar is more difficult to setup than their hardtail versions.

But the bright side is, it's usually a setup problem. Trem screws adjustment, trem springs balance vs. string tension, all string/other contact points in perfect condition and lubed - that's the 'Trem 101'.

And on Strats, the trem wasn't even designed for divebombing and other trem arm mishandling - although some players have done quite a nice job with it, aided with great techs and an unlimited supply of trem arms.
For really serious up/down stuff, consider something with locking bridge and nut.

Edit: Read moochy's reply, and I respectfully disagree. Unless the tuning machines are mechanically broken, they will do their job. If the strings are slipping at tuners, the most likely culprit is how the strings are wound on the pegs...


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Post subject: Re: Fender Stratocasters - Why So Difficult To Keep Their Tu
Posted: Sat Mar 18, 2017 1:56 pm
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A poorly cut nut causes more tuning stability issues than anything else, and less experienced folk change the tuners because they incorrectly diagnose the problem.

There are a number of things to look at.
The bridge must be correctly installed and set up to return to its rest position
The nut must be correctly cut.
The nut slots require lubrication, as do any string trees.

Locking tuners do not make the situation any better, but they do make restringing less of a chore, and you do not need to have any winds around the post if you use them.

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Post subject: Re: Fender Stratocasters - Why So Difficult To Keep Their Tu
Posted: Sat Mar 18, 2017 2:06 pm
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Also, if you put new strings on a guitar and don't play it, like a backup guitar, it's going to go out of tune. The first day or two of playing after new strings, the strings stretch and settle, after which they are far more stable than new. But if you don't play it, the strings won't settle until you do.

That said, yeah, Strats go out of tune more than most electrics. Part of it is the long string span from ball end to tuning peg, and part of it is the trem and floating bridge. Blocking the trem if you don't use it helps, but even so, a 24.75" guitar with a wraparound bridge and 3+3 headstock is going to be more tuning stable simply because there's a shorter string length.

Changing strings can help too. Some strings cores are more elastic than others, which make bends easier on the fingers, but means they stretch out of tune easier too. So stiffer strings, or going up a size can help too.


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Post subject: Re: Fender Stratocasters - Why So Difficult To Keep Their Tu
Posted: Sat Mar 18, 2017 2:25 pm
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arth1 wrote:
Also, if you put new strings on a guitar and don't play it, like a backup guitar, it's going to go out of tune. The first day or two of playing after new strings, the strings stretch and settle, after which they are far more stable than new. But if you don't play it, the strings won't settle until you do.

That said, yeah, Strats go out of tune more than most electrics. Part of it is the long string span from ball end to tuning peg, and part of it is the trem and floating bridge. Blocking the trem if you don't use it helps, but even so, a 24.75" guitar with a wraparound bridge and 3+3 headstock is going to be more tuning stable simply because there's a shorter string length.

Changing strings can help too. Some strings cores are more elastic than others, which make bends easier on the fingers, but means they stretch out of tune easier too. So stiffer strings, or going up a size can help too.


I have to disagree to the bold bit, Arth.
Out of all the guitars in this house, the one that goes out of tune the most is a Gibson Les Paul Junior - it has to be very carefully strung up and the zero nut has to be properly lubed too, every string up.
The Strats on the other hand are all relatively stable - you have to do serious wiggle stickery to get things to slip out of tune.

In practise the 25.5 inch scale guitars have greater tuning stability.

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Post subject: Re: Fender Stratocasters - Why So Difficult To Keep Their Tu
Posted: Sat Mar 18, 2017 10:19 pm
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A true Strat setup is "floating" where the bridge is not flush with the body. Unfortunately this "floating" can lead to lots of tuning difficulties. Hence, many Strat owners will setup the bridge such that it is flush with the body to address this. Then lubricate everything (saddles, nut, and string trees), and do a quality string installation with proper clean windings around the pegs. Also, someone mentioned tuners ... My Squier Tele Vintage Modified has quality tuners, so you may or may not have bad tuners?

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Post subject: Re: Fender Stratocasters - Why So Difficult To Keep Their Tu
Posted: Sun Mar 19, 2017 12:39 am
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stratmangler wrote:
Out of all the guitars in this house, the one that goes out of tune the most is a Gibson Les Paul Junior - it has to be very carefully strung up

Tune-O-Matic bridge? Some of them can have a bit of slack making the saddles move with the string tension, throwing tuning off. I replaced the bridge on my SG to one with a tension wire precisely because the one it came with had so much slack.

stratmangler wrote:
and the zero nut has to be properly lubed too, every string up.

One trick for both metal nuts, rough bridge saddles and string trees: Buy a stick of stroppig compound from a woodworking store, and impregnate a cotton string with it, like kitchen string for tying roasts with. Drag it over each saddle or nut slot a few dozen times, and the grooves will be slick and shiny. And stay that way for years.
(For plastic/bone nuts, don't do this, but use graphite instead, like from a pencil.)


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Post subject: Re: Fender Stratocasters - Why So Difficult To Keep Their Tu
Posted: Sun Mar 19, 2017 2:14 am
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Guitar just need a good set up, yes Strat set up need more a qualified luthier than a non tremolo guitar. It will keep in tune after.

You ned to know how many turn around the tuning machine, less is best.


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Post subject: Re: Fender Stratocasters - Why So Difficult To Keep Their Tu
Posted: Sun Mar 19, 2017 4:59 am
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arth1 wrote:
stratmangler wrote:
Out of all the guitars in this house, the one that goes out of tune the most is a Gibson Les Paul Junior - it has to be very carefully strung up

Tune-O-Matic bridge? Some of them can have a bit of slack making the saddles move with the string tension, throwing tuning off. I replaced the bridge on my SG to one with a tension wire precisely because the one it came with had so much slack.

stratmangler wrote:
and the zero nut has to be properly lubed too, every string up.

One trick for both metal nuts, rough bridge saddles and string trees: Buy a stick of stroppig compound from a woodworking store, and impregnate a cotton string with it, like kitchen string for tying roasts with. Drag it over each saddle or nut slot a few dozen times, and the grooves will be slick and shiny. And stay that way for years.
(For plastic/bone nuts, don't do this, but use graphite instead, like from a pencil.)


That's what I like about this place - there's lots of good advice.
Thanks. :D

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Post subject: Re: Fender Stratocasters - Why So Difficult To Keep Their Tu
Posted: Thu Apr 13, 2017 8:27 pm
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I picked up my MIM 2016 strat just weeks ago, set it up myself using youtube as a source. Floated bridge, changed neckplate (custom), set action etc, stays in tune very well with up/down whammy action. My only experience is a Peavy Raptor beginner guitar just 10 months prior. Maybe I got lucky, maybe my attention to detail and minor OCD is of use in the guitar world lol.


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Post subject: Re: Fender Stratocasters - Why So Difficult To Keep Their Tu
Posted: Thu Apr 13, 2017 11:56 pm
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PentatonicSteel wrote:
... maybe my attention to detail and minor OCD is of use in the guitar world lol.


He shoots, he scores. Spot on that man.

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Post subject: Re: Fender Stratocasters - Why So Difficult To Keep Their Tu
Posted: Fri Apr 14, 2017 2:37 am
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John Sims wrote:
PentatonicSteel wrote:
... maybe my attention to detail and minor OCD is of use in the guitar world lol.


He shoots, he scores. Spot on that man.

I learned the hard way with my Peavy when I tried to float the bridge myself (a week after starting to play), had it sent to a luthier. Spoke with folks I know that play about what I was trying to do, they literally had no idea. I was shocked at how many experienced players know sweet F all about this stuff.

Sought out research through the web and YouTube to figure out how these guitar thingys work. Almost a year later (without having to do anything with my peavy except tune), I pick up my Fender.

Guys at the shop offer to set it up, I opt out and bring it home and get it done on my own.

-took the neck off for new plate
-yanked a spring out and set 3 parallel
-custom control knobs
-tested neck adjustment
-floated bridge
-set action with the card trick
-wipe the thing down and feel proud.

Every time someone decks a Fender, a kitten cries.


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Post subject: Re: Fender Stratocasters - Why So Difficult To Keep Their Tu
Posted: Fri Apr 14, 2017 5:35 am
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Ah the old "If it ain't broke, fix it 'till it is" route.

And kittens need to learn who is boss.

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