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Post subject: Modern Player HSH strat unusual electronics configuration
Posted: Sat Feb 11, 2017 2:28 pm
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I bought a Modern Player HSH two years ago, but have just recently started to play it more plus redoing the set up. I do not have detailed knowledge regarding the intricacies of electric guitar wiring. I possess only basic knowledge about pickup configuration, but do have a few questions about some unusual functions I discovered when closely examining the guitar. As with almost all strats the MP HSH has 3 pots (1 volume and 2 tone) and a 5 position selector. According to Fender’s website (which no longer lists the Modern Player which has since been discontinued) and the various retailer sites, the electronics are supposed to operate as follows:
Selector position:
1 Bridge Humbucker;
2 Inside Coil Bridge Humbucker/Middle Single Coil;
3 Middle Single Coil;
4 Middle Single Coil/Outside Coil Neck Humbucker;
5 Neck Humbucker;
Pots:
Vol. All three pickups;
Tone 1 The neck humbucker;
Tone 2 The middle single coil and the bridge humbucker.
However, when I checked the functions on the guitar itself, it operated somewhat differently:
Selector position:
Position 2 is a combination of the outside coil of the Bridge Humbucker and the Middle Pickup rather than inside bridge humbucker coil and the Middle Pickup as stated on Fender’s (and other) websites. On my guitar the outside coils of both humbuckers are screw coils whereas the inside coils are slug coils. This configuration is consistent with on-line photos of the same model. There is no wiring diagram for the MP HSH Strat on fender’s website, but there is a parts layout for the American Deluxe HSH Strat, which posters on various forums say is identical to the Modern Player HSH Strat. According to that diagram (found at http://www.fmicassets.com/Damroot/Original/10001/011-9810A_SISD.pdf ), the selector switch should function exactly as it does on my MP HSH Strat.
Pots:
The pots on my guitar function in a slightly different manner. They function as above except, when the middle pickup is on (selector in the 3rd position), the Tone 1 pot operates almost as an on/off switch for the Tone 2 pot. If I have Tone 1 pot at or below approximately "3-4," Tone 2 will not have any effect on tone no matter what position it is in, and the guitar will have more of a bass sound to it; once Tone 1 pot is turned past "3-4," then Tone 2 pot will function fully, and provide more of a bass sound at "1" (even if Tone 1 is at "10") and a more treble sound at "10." This occurs only in the 3rd position with the middle pickup (and possibly the 4th selector position – it’s difficult to tell but it appears to be bass below "3-4" and treble above "3-4" but with no graduated increase or decrease). I’m assuming (although perhaps incorrectly) that the Tone pots act as Treble Boosters and that Tone 2 is acting as an on/off switch for treble boost on the middle pickup.

Question 1: Is my guitar selector switch not correctly configured or were the promotional materials simply inaccurate?
Question 2: Is Tone 1 supposed to act as an on/off switch for treble boost on the middle pickup? If so, what is the purpose of such a design? If one wants to cut treble boost for the middle pickup, simply turn Tone 2 to "0" or in the case of a true equalization control, set Tone 2 to "5." Tone 1’s on/off function simply makes no sense.
Question 3: Most of my playing uses either the bridge or neck humbuckers as stand-alones in positions 1 and 5 although occasionally I like to experiment with positions 2, 3 and 4. I would like to keep the current combination for positions 2 and 4 because it creates a very pleasing (although unusual) tone especially when the treble is boosted and a clean amplifier is being used. Unless I am missing something, positions 2 and 4 split the bridge and neck humbuckers respectively and therefore would function in a similar fashion to a single coil if the middle pickup were removed from the combination. Is there a simple way to accomplish stand-alone single coil function for the bridge and neck pickups with a push pull or similar device to turn the middle pickup off or on in positions 2 and 4 without alterations to the guitar body?


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Post subject: Re: Modern Player HSH strat unusual electronics configuratio
Posted: Sun Feb 12, 2017 1:15 pm
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Rock Star
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Joined: Tue Jul 17, 2007 1:53 am
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You don't seem to get answers from Modern Player HSH owning wiring gurus, so I'll get the topic rolling although I'm neither...

Answer to Q1: The screw/slug coil of a humbucker doesn't determine which coil works when split; that is a wiring matter. How did you determine which coil is active in positions 2&4?
A to Q2: We may understand "treble boost" differently; to me it's an active electronics battery operated PCB system - and your guitar doesn't have one, at least it shouldn't.
If your guitar is wired as the AmDlx HSH in your diagram link, Tone1 should work only in positions 3/4/5, Tone2 only in positions 1/2; there is no position where both tones should be on.
A to Q3: IMHO, there is no "simple way" (to me, all wiring diagrams are complicated *grin*), but it can be done. You may need to enlarge the cavity (depending on how much stuff you want to add, and where), and you will need a new pickguard. But, just dropping the middle pickup away from pos2&4 could probably be done with one on-off switch.
Just think about what combinations you want, write it down (a little shorter than this post, please) and send it here, someone might find the right diagram.

In general, and especially if you have that both tones function simultaneously, I think your electronics need to be checked. If you DIY, follow the AmDlx diagram, search for bad solders, broken wires and points of contact where they shouldn't be.


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Post subject: Re: Modern Player HSH strat unusual electronics configuratio
Posted: Sun Feb 12, 2017 3:52 pm
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Joined: Fri Jun 05, 2015 6:24 am
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Thanks for the reply. I determined the active coil in positions 2/4 by simply tapping with a screw driver on the screws/slugs.

On the tone control, my understanding is that typically a single control equalizer (which is what a tone pot is) controls the treble boost. As you turn the control from 1 to 10, it increases the strength of the higher frequency signals. This is the situation with most inexpensive audio devices, such as a portable radio. A single tone knob could also act as a bass booster or treble attenuator below "5" but this arrangement involves more complicated electronics. Keeping in mind that most electric guitars are passive (i.e. there is no preamp) a treble boost is typically the way to alter the tone. Any more complex system would require amplification. I may be wrong, but I was always under the impression that simple treble boost is the simplest equalization control.

On question three, I found out some more information. I visually examined the selector switch on my guitar and it is what fender describes as a "super switch." Super switches are far more versatile than the traditional Strat 5-way.


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Post subject: Re: Modern Player HSH strat unusual electronics configuratio
Posted: Mon Feb 13, 2017 12:43 am
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Rock Star
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Joined: Tue Jul 17, 2007 1:53 am
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Not trying to be picky here, but:
You have one fundamental misunderstanding (or just a different interpretation for terms) there: passive guitar electronics can't "boost" anything that isn't already present in the signal. So, a pot can only reduce highs when turned from 10 downwards - you can test this by taking the pot out of the circuit like in the 'passing lane' wiring. "Boosters" = onboard battery powered preamps.


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Post subject: Re: Modern Player HSH strat unusual electronics configuratio
Posted: Mon Feb 13, 2017 2:54 am
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Roadie
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Joined: Sat Oct 05, 2013 4:26 am
Posts: 249
I wouldn't worry about the dscrepancy about which switch position does what. Fender advertising writers do get it wrong sometimes.

FWIW this is the ad description for the previously mentioned American Deluxe HSH

Pickup Switching: 5-Position Blade:
Pos 1. Bridge Humbucking Pickup;
Pos 2. Middle Pickup and Outer Coil of Bridge Pickup;
Pos 3. Middle Pickup and Outer Coil of Neck Humbucking Pickup;
Pos 4. Neck and Middle Pickup;
Pos 5. Neck Humbucking Pickup

The service diagram is somewhat different


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