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Post subject: Re: Fitted a new neck but not sure how to set it up right
Posted: Fri Feb 10, 2017 1:47 pm
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Rock Star
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sfceric64 wrote:
Personally I would use a piece of poplar stock, its easy to work with, readily available and inexpensive.

Yeah, just don't sand it without a mask. Poplar is one of the worst woods for causing breathing problems from sawdust. But it's readily available and cheap.


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Post subject: Re: Fitted a new neck but not sure how to set it up right
Posted: Sat Feb 11, 2017 12:50 am
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arth1 wrote:
sfceric64 wrote:
Personally I would use a piece of poplar stock, its easy to work with, readily available and inexpensive.

Yeah, just don't sand it without a mask. Poplar is one of the worst woods for causing breathing problems from sawdust. But it's readily available and cheap.

You should try Iroko if you think Poplar is bad. ;-)

Interesting read. In the first instance I would be very concerned about plugging and redrilling the neck. The timber strength to around half the width of the screws will be greatly compromised as the timber of the plug will be very fine and prone to break away. The grain direction will be wrong so you will be screwing into the end grain of the plug.

If anything you might want to try more than 5mm so you miss the holes completely (they will still need plugging). You will still have strength issues though.

Probably a better option now is to use threaded inserts.

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Post subject: Re: Fitted a new neck but not sure how to set it up right
Posted: Sat Feb 11, 2017 3:47 am
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moochy13 wrote:
...the body was cheap, the neck was not....


What is the thickness of the body? Are you trying to fit a US spec neck onto a foreign spec body?

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Post subject: Re: Fitted a new neck but not sure how to set it up right
Posted: Sat Feb 11, 2017 10:28 am
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Aspiring Musician
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Just to clear up a few points.

The body is of unknown origin, I brought it as an unfinished 'second' off ebay.

The cheap neck I originally fitted, before I ruined the neck pocket, worked fine. I just didn't like the look, frets, or shape of the neck. No buzzing, no issues. It was a cheap fix to get the guitar going and useable, the plan was always to replace it.

At the moment, the neck is butted right up to the body, there is no gap between neck and body. The neck only has 4 holes in it, that I drilled to secure it in its current position.

I have a 25.5" scale length, despite fixing the neck 5mm closer to the bridge than the original neck was.

The new neck gave me huge string buzzing issues, leading me to raise the saddles to the top of their adjustment. This made the guitar sound crap. I have not adjusted the truss rod of the new neck.


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Post subject: Re: Fitted a new neck but not sure how to set it up right
Posted: Sat Feb 11, 2017 11:23 am
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With that info, string it up w/ whatever strings you plan on playing with and proceed with Fender setup.
Disregard previous info pertaining to filling the gap.

Quote:
What is the thickness of the body?
Excellent question, something I overlooked that could make the neck appear to be to high in the pocket.


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Post subject: Re: Fitted a new neck but not sure how to set it up right
Posted: Sat Feb 11, 2017 11:36 am
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Looking at the pic below, I agree with stratele52; the neck seems to have a backbow. Further on, the neck angle may not be optimal (and the neck may also sit highish in the pocket).

I'd first adjust the neck straight as an arrow (adjust with slack strings, check with tuned strings), then check the neck angle again. Normally Strats are close to zero angle, but if you run out of adjustment space on the saddles, you may need a shim (saddles high -> shim the neck side of the neck pocket).
After these to the full setup routine sfceric64 suggests.

moochy13 wrote:
Image


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Post subject: Re: Fitted a new neck but not sure how to set it up right
Posted: Sat Feb 11, 2017 2:52 pm
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Aspiring Musician
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Thanks for all the help. Unfortunately I will have to remove the neck to adjust the truss rod. Brought some more strings today.

Here is a picture of the nice new neck, always wanted a nice bit of flame, it feels great in my hand just need to get it sorted!

Image

And of course some nice custom decals, again real nice quality.

Image

Image


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Post subject: Re: Fitted a new neck but not sure how to set it up right
Posted: Sat Feb 11, 2017 10:01 pm
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John Sims wrote:
arth1 wrote:
sfceric64 wrote:
Personally I would use a piece of poplar stock, its easy to work with, readily available and inexpensive.

Yeah, just don't sand it without a mask. Poplar is one of the worst woods for causing breathing problems from sawdust. But it's readily available and cheap.

You should try Iroko if you think Poplar is bad. ;-)

After turning bubinga on the lathe once, I treat all exotic woods as potential irritants.
For domestic woods, yew is probably the worst. The dust is toxic and can cause your lungs to bleed(!). It's one of the best tonewoods there is, but cut it, don't sand it.

For safety, I recommend beech, which is as close to non-irritating as you can get. It's easy to cut, and doesn't warp much with age, so it's perfect for things like shims and plugs. Birch is also "safe" and very stable, but far harder to cut.


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Post subject: Re: Fitted a new neck but not sure how to set it up right
Posted: Sun Feb 19, 2017 2:45 am
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Aspiring Musician
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Should get round to having a look at the truss rod today, is there an amount that i should be turning it to get some movement?

I'm not sure if 1/4 turn is a lot, or nothing, or if a whole turn is the minimum needed to adjust the rod?

Because I've got to take the neck off to adjust it, it'd be nice to know roughly how much I need to adjust it if possible, to save taking the neck off countless times.


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Post subject: Re: Fitted a new neck but not sure how to set it up right
Posted: Sun Feb 19, 2017 6:20 am
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All truss rods don't move all necks in exactly the same way. The 1/8, 1/4 and 1/2 turns are in use because they're easy to perceive - and return to starting point if needed.
On this guitar, based on the pic I quote-posted (showing backbow), you'll need to first loosen the truss rod quite a bit, let the strings pull the neck to a nice curve and then tighten the rod to get either a straight neck or a small relief. I'll repeat: adjust it straight first, check the neck angle at that point.

But, you don't need to take the neck off totally, check the vid from 3:50 on:


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Post subject: Re: Fitted a new neck but not sure how to set it up right
Posted: Sun Feb 19, 2017 7:17 am
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Thanks for the help. Gotta admit I winced a bit when he leant on that neck to pop it up!


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Post subject: Re: Fitted a new neck but not sure how to set it up right
Posted: Mon Feb 20, 2017 4:44 am
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My2cents, The neck can be adjusted to very close when it is off the guitar. Lay a straight edge from 1st fret to last fret and measure gap at 8th fret, should be about .010 inches (10 thou). Turn truss rod adjust screw clockwise (righty tighty) to create backbow ie reduce gap under straight edge. Turn anticlockwise (lefty loosey) to increase gap under straight edge. Wood takes a while to adjust so 1/4 turn of adjust screw at a time and let it sit for a few hours. when gap is at .010" let it sit for 24 hours then recheck. Trivia - a business card is .010 so can be used to set relief gap if no feeler gauges available. Final setting on guitar with capo on 1st and holding string down at last fret should be .010" to .012" string to fret gap at the 8th fret, as string tension will also have an effect.
With the guitar strings under approx. tension set height bridge pieces by using a quarter (1/16 inch) between the string and the 17th fret. If the bridge pieces end up too high or too low and there is buzzing then the neck angle will need to be considered- nominal bridge height is 3/8" to 1/2" and the adjusting screws will just stick up in the middle bridge pieces
Intonation by matching the open pitch with the 12th fret pitch and adjusting the bridge piece toward the fretboard if too flat or toward the back of the bridge if too sharp. Trivia - on my strat the scale lengths are 6th string (low E) measures 25.5" and the 1st string (high E) measures 25.375" but guitars can vary.
Hope this helps if not disregard, Ross


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Post subject: Re: Fitted a new neck but not sure how to set it up right
Posted: Mon Feb 20, 2017 6:18 am
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Aspiring Musician
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Yes it's all help thanks. I strung it up and set a rough turn of the truss rod yesterday, then decided to leave it and let it settle. I might have a look at it again tonight if I get a chance.


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Post subject: Re: Fitted a new neck but not sure how to set it up right
Posted: Sun Feb 26, 2017 6:06 am
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Bit of an update the neck now has a visible concave shave to it.

Following the fender setup guide, with capo on first fret the gap between 8th fret and string should be 0.3mm. I have about 0.7mm on the high e, and bending at the 12th the string chokes out. And of course it doesn't feel great to play with that action.

Surely the closer i go to the 0.3mm the quicker a bent note is going to choke out?

Even dropping the string height to 0.6mm chokes the whole string if fretting anywhere above 4th fret.

So from this I guess I'm still at the point where I will have to have a stupidly high action to stop notes choking out.


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Post subject: Re: Fitted a new neck but not sure how to set it up right
Posted: Sun Feb 26, 2017 8:25 am
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moochy13 wrote:
Surely the closer i go to the 0.3mm the quicker a bent note is going to choke out?

No. I'll stand on the shoulders of a giant, and quote Mr. Schwartz on truss rod and buzzing relations:
Rob Schwarz-Fender wrote:
If the buzz occurs at the low end......neck is likely too straight (overbow).
If the buzz occurs on the high end.....neck likely has too much relief (underbow or backbow)

So, my diagnose is, you now have too much relief.

I said this before; start with a neck as straight as possible - with a light pick attack, a guitar should play just fine. This will also help you evaluate the neck: if it doesn't play OK when straight, you probably have other problems - uneven frets or such.
When you have the guitar playing fine with a straight neck, then add the least amount of relief you need with your playing style. I know you have to do truss rod/action/intonation a couple of times to finish the job, but that can't be helped. Think of it as a learning opportunity. :wink:


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