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Post subject: Fitted a new neck but not sure how to set it up right
Posted: Thu Feb 09, 2017 12:35 pm
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Aspiring Musician
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Built myself a strat last year with a cheapo tele neck, all was good, guitar sounded great, played decent, happy with it. But the cheap neck was a grim attempt at a 'vintage tint' and had big frets I didn't care for.

So for xmas I got myself a nice flame maple tele neck in vintage spec, thinking it would be a simple swap. I was wrong. I tried to get it fitted by a Luthier, but he wasn't interested and said I'd have to cut the neck pocket to bring it closer to the bridge. Then I made the fatal error of trying to measure the scale with the saddles all far back in the bridge, and I took the Luthier advice removed about 5mm from the pocket.

Then I fitted the new neck, and very quickly realised now I didn't have enough room behind the saddles to set the intonation, I also had to raise the saddles very high to eliminate string buzz. So much so the guitar sounds crap because the strings are so far from pickups.

So now I'm trying to fix it. I have moved the saddles so they are all level and with plenty or travel behind them and a bit left on the screw to go forward, and they measure 25.5" from nut to saddle. Is this right, regardless of the material I removed from the pocket? Is that missing wood going to throw the intonation way out despite the fact I'm starting from 25.5" nut to saddle?

The problem with the buzzing and raising the saddles I thought was because the heel of the new neck was thicker than the old one. But on measuring they are the same, so now thinking I need to adjust the truss rod? This was a new never fitted neck which has now had time to sit under tension, I guess truss rod adjustment should be expected?

Will get some photos up shortly.


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Post subject: Re: Fitted a new neck but not sure how to set it up right
Posted: Thu Feb 09, 2017 12:52 pm
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Did your screw holes line up?
Or did you have to drill new ones?

I suggest you remove the neck and take some detail pics of the neck heel and the cavity and post them here.

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Post subject: Re: Fitted a new neck but not sure how to set it up right
Posted: Thu Feb 09, 2017 12:58 pm
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I drilled the neck to match the existing screw holes, but AFTER I had removed the material I probably shouldn't have removed.

So now if I replace the 5mm of wood I removed from the face of the pocket, which I have a skilled woodworking friend to do, I will have to Redrill the neck. I will have to get pics with the neck off tomorrow.


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Post subject: Re: Fitted a new neck but not sure how to set it up right
Posted: Thu Feb 09, 2017 1:27 pm
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I'm curious to know why a professional luthier would turn down work.

:shock:

Arjay

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Post subject: Re: Fitted a new neck but not sure how to set it up right
Posted: Thu Feb 09, 2017 1:52 pm
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He said because it wasn't a simple bolt on job and setup he didn't want to do it. Needless to say I probably won't be going back. He set one of my other guitars up and did a great job, but 2 weeks ago done some electrical work on my 72 custom tele and didn't do it right, and now this neck situation here.

Image

Image

So that is where I have set the saddles as a 'stock' position, and as you can see I have a 25.5" scale.

Image

Here you can see how much room I have to play with when intonating. I don't know if by moving the neck further towards the bridge if I am going to run out of adjustment when intonating.

Here I've tried to show how straight the neck is

Image

Here is the height above the pickups now I've reset the bridge, this is the height I think the string should be, but there's lots of rattle.

Image

Image


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Post subject: Re: Fitted a new neck but not sure how to set it up right
Posted: Thu Feb 09, 2017 2:54 pm
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If it were me dealing with this I would take my time and meticulously carve a spacer block out of hardwood, the thickness of the removed wood and then re-use the old holes.

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Post subject: Re: Fitted a new neck but not sure how to set it up right
Posted: Thu Feb 09, 2017 3:20 pm
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The only holes in the neck are the ones I drilled that are currently being used. When I got it there were no holes.


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Post subject: Re: Fitted a new neck but not sure how to set it up right
Posted: Thu Feb 09, 2017 7:57 pm
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I would still find or make something to fill that 5mm gap you created.

At a distance of only 5mm, you may want to consider plugging those holes in the neck before drilling new ones.
that's only about 3/16" or so.
I don't know if that's enough meat to hold a screw.
It might be because maple is pretty tough but I don't know if I would risk it, myself.

Do you have any woodworking skills?

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Post subject: Re: Fitted a new neck but not sure how to set it up right
Posted: Thu Feb 09, 2017 11:26 pm
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A picture or three of the neck join at the body would help; top/back/side.
I would say that if you feel the neck is securely attached, you really need to measure relief from a tuned to pitch guitar to get an accurate measurement. Consider you'll be putting 200-300lbs tension on the neck w/ 10's set.
Your scale length looks fine,.
Your saddle adjustment for string height-action should not be a concern until after you get a good relief measurement.
From your 2nd to last picture, the neck looks a little high in the pocket to me. Is there a micro-tilt on the neck?


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Post subject: Re: Fitted a new neck but not sure how to set it up right
Posted: Fri Feb 10, 2017 2:49 am
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Neck look to have a back bow :(

To fit a guitar neck is not a rocket science, but you must know what to do before.


Last edited by stratele52 on Sat Feb 11, 2017 2:12 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Post subject: Re: Fitted a new neck but not sure how to set it up right
Posted: Fri Feb 10, 2017 5:23 am
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bmw-ktm - i was due last night to go round to my carpenter friends and make a spacer to fill the missing wood, and also to shave a bit off the heel of the neck because i thought it sat too high in the neck pocket, leading to my buzzing issues. but after taking strings off and checking it again before i went, and finding that the scale was correct and the neck seemed the same as the old one that worked fine, i called him and said i needed to find out what was going on before doing anything un-reversable to the neck. i was also going to get him to fill the existing screw holes with dowel and glue before i have to drill new ones.

the body was cheap, the neck was not. if i have to ditch a part and start again, it will be the body.

sfceric64 - the neck is securely attached, no question of that. just not sure its attached in the right place hahah! im not sure what you mean about measuring the relief, its not something ive done before. im trying if i can to avoid wasting another set of strings, ive already binned one set that saw 10 minutes play, would prefer not to fit some more only to have to take them off to work on the neck if required. at the moment i have 1 spare e string on that i had kicking about. there is no microtilt, just a truss rod at the heel end.

as i said before, my initial thought was the neck sits too high, i had to adjust the saddles to the top of their height to avoid fret buzz, but looking at the necks and measuring as best i can, they seem to the be the same. the new neck even has vintage frets, which surely should mean less height than the old neck that had big modern frets. i cant take any wood out of the neck pocket to to make the neck sit lower as the heel is carved/contoured and there isn't a lot of meat there.

stratele52 - yes im pretty convinced the trussrod isnt adjusted as it should be, however bear in mind the photos i took, it is very hard to show the true shape of the neck just because of the awkward angle i had to take the photo from. i know fitting a neck should be easy, i thought all id be doing was taking out 4 screws, swapping necks, then screwing it back on. but alas, bad advice from the luthier and my own eagerness to get it done has left me in this predicament.

thanks for the replies, this guitar sounded so good and was perfect for my new band so it kills me not using it.

would we agree that maybe my first step is to adjust the truss rod ?


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Post subject: Re: Fitted a new neck but not sure how to set it up right
Posted: Fri Feb 10, 2017 9:18 am
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moochy13 wrote:
would we agree that maybe my first step is to adjust the truss rod ?

Absolutely, as well as adjusting the individual bridge heights to more or less match the fingerboard radius, and then repeating the two steps a second time.
It might not be a real problem after that, and if it still is, it will give a better picture of what needs to be done.


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Post subject: Re: Fitted a new neck but not sure how to set it up right
Posted: Fri Feb 10, 2017 9:46 am
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Quote:
the neck is securely attached, no question of that. just not sure its attached in the right place hahah! im not sure what you mean about measuring the relief, its not something ive done before

refer to the Fender setup guide: https://support.fender.com/hc/en-us/articles/212774806-How-do-I-set-up-my-Fender-guitar-properly- The 1st step in the process of adjusting a truss rod is tune to pitch.

Quote:
im trying if i can to avoid wasting another set of strings
So don't remove the strings completely while in the process of the Setup!!! Other than tuning to pitch, measuring, adjusting; re-use the strings until the entire process is complete.

If you are satisfied w/ the small gap you created and aren't going to change the mounting points on the neck then putting strings on and tuning to pitch in order to measure the relief and adjust the truss are the next steps.
Otherwise, finish any woodworking you may still be contemplating.


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Post subject: Re: Fitted a new neck but not sure how to set it up right
Posted: Fri Feb 10, 2017 10:16 am
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After re-reading your first post, just to make sure, I see again that the reasons you stated for replacing the neck were all related to aesthetics and not to function.
You said the guitar played great.
This implied to me that the body, prior to modification and with the old neck installed, functioned correctly.
If that is not correct, if there were intonation and scale length issues with the old neck, you should advise us of that now before anything else is done.
I've been operating on the assumption that there were no mechanical issues until you attempted to fit the new neck.

There are two things different now.
The body has been modified.
The neck has been replaced.
By your own admission the body should not have been modified.

Before I comment further I would like you to confirm if all of the above points are true.

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Post subject: Re: Fitted a new neck but not sure how to set it up right
Posted: Fri Feb 10, 2017 12:53 pm
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IMO, if the neck is firmly attached and you have a good scale length established, you may temporarily disregard the gap that you created between the necks butt and the body's pocket.

You probably should fill that gap w/ a single piece of Woodstock-shim, to create a more solid join. Personally I would use a piece of poplar stock, its easy to work with, readily available and inexpensive. Proper hide glue and clamping w/ a period of time for the glue to set should fill the gap sufficiently enough. Painted accordingly if necessary.

In my opinion, the neck screws do not need to be filled and moved if they are indeed working and the scale length is correct so much so that the saddles can be adjusted to produce good intonation and action.

I should add my assumption:
Quote:
I drilled the neck to match the existing screw holes, but AFTER I had removed the material I probably shouldn't have removed.
I assumed you transferred the new neck holes from the old neck, if for some reason you transferred the new neck holes from the body then you may have altered the scale length.


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