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Post subject: Re: MiM's - Get them while they are cheap?
Posted: Thu Feb 02, 2017 6:34 am
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You've done your homework, Art.

Hand salute!

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Post subject: Re: MiM's - Get them while they are cheap?
Posted: Thu Feb 02, 2017 9:44 am
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arth1 wrote:
... Hybrids are going to be more practical for the foreseeable future.


I agree. And with the halo effect of F1, La Ferrari, Porsche 918 etc. using the hybrid to harness performance, farm energy from braking, and provide a product which is better than an internal combustion engine on its own it is moving the game forward. It also dovetails better into a transition to hydrogen fuel cells so the consumer of the current technology is paying for the stepping stone development to this next stage.

As a further thought on the air powered vehicles. They suggest that the engine can also run on petrol when the air runs out. I can see this as a petrol engine is only an air pump in effect- and would also explain why they use noisy reciprocating pistons rather than a more obvious turbine solution. But...combustion provides lubrication to the bores. How do they do it with just air? I wonder if they add oil for lubrication in which case the exhausted air will also contain oil.

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Post subject: Re: MiM's - Get them while they are cheap?
Posted: Thu Feb 02, 2017 10:35 am
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My father used to say, "In the end, the car has yet to evolve from the basic original box on wheels". Take the Studebaker for example. Before GM, Ford, and others were household names Studebaker was a box on wheels. Like the Conestoga, it was a Studebaker covered wagon, and I'm sure those youngsters of yesteryear were excited about their horse power. Then came a new box replacing the wagon train with a drivetrain, then came . . .
a new box.

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On a music note:

"Little boxes on the hillside,
Little boxes made of ticky tacky,
Little boxes on the hillside,
Little boxes all the same.
There's a green one and a pink one
And a blue one and a yellow one,
And they're all made out of ticky tacky
And they all look just the same."

Although, the lyrics for Little Boxes refer to buildings, ironically, composer Malvina Reynolds had the inspiration while on a drive.

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Post subject: Re: MiM's - Get them while they are cheap?
Posted: Thu Feb 02, 2017 1:30 pm
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I'm reading this thread from newest post to oldest, a couple of pages in and wondering what any of this has to do with Mexican-made guitars. They don't even burn gas.

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Post subject: Re: MiM's - Get them while they are cheap?
Posted: Thu Feb 02, 2017 1:59 pm
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strings10927 wrote:
I'm reading this thread from newest post to oldest, a couple of pages in and wondering what any of this has to do with Mexican-made guitars. They don't even burn gas.

They're electric!


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Post subject: Re: MiM's - Get them while they are cheap?
Posted: Thu Feb 02, 2017 3:03 pm
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strings10927 wrote:
I'm reading this thread from newest post to oldest, a couple of pages in and wondering what any of this has to do with Mexican-made guitars. They don't even burn gas.

The topic has to do with political and economic ramifications of a tariff for Mexico.
Any discussion of how it may impact MIM guitars will also quite naturally delve into other related issues that may be at play, which includes but is not limited to the broader intentions of such a tariff and the motivations and philosophies involved in arriving at the idea of proposing the tariff in the first place.
The digression was natural and appropriate because it won't only be MIM guitars which are affected; not just by the tariff but also the philosophies and trends the tariff implies on our greater lives.
As usual, you've missed the point and took the opportunity to make a snide comment.
I don't know what's happened to you lately.
You've been a respected member of this community but you seem hell-bent on destroying that.

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Post subject: Re: MiM's - Get them while they are cheap?
Posted: Thu Feb 02, 2017 3:07 pm
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strings10927 wrote:
I'm reading this thread from newest post to oldest, a couple of pages in and wondering what any of this has to do with Mexican-made guitars. They don't even burn gas.
Yeah, you're kinda right, and I plead guilty of making a wrong turn in the road; but, then I turned to GAS = Guitar Acquired Syndrome which could relate to MIM. :wink:
FSB

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Post subject: Re: MiM's - Get them while they are cheap?
Posted: Fri Feb 03, 2017 3:55 am
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BMW-KTM wrote:

The topic has to do with political and economic ramifications of a tariff for Mexico.
Any discussion of how it may impact MIM guitars will also quite naturally delve into other related issues that may be at play, which includes but is not limited to the broader intentions of such a tariff and the motivations and philosophies involved in arriving at the idea of proposing the tariff in the first place.
The digression was natural and appropriate because it won't only be MIM guitars which are affected; not just by the tariff but also the philosophies and trends the tariff implies on our greater lives...


Heck! When you put it like that it makes me feel half intelligent. :wink:

With Mr Trump, BREXIT, Russia playing silly devils and the tightening economic strangle hold being obtained by China via the back door of supplying everything cheap we do find ourselves at something of a global tipping point.

To return to the origins of this thread: In this modern world I had naively not understood what an absolute hell hole at least parts of Mexico can be. I can now more understand why the US would seek to control their borders and equally why people would wish to escape to the US for better life.

It is very sad however that trade tariffs will do little but impact on legitimate businesses within Mexico which would otherwise be the countries only route towards a modern stable community.

If, as we said at the start, MiM guitars loose their price advantage they will cease to be a viable product in the Fender range. We see it now with a good number of MiM's being more expensive than American Specials and top end MiMs being close to the price of and American Standard (or what ever it is called this week).

It isn't that MiM's aren't good guitars. It is a similar thing in the UK with SEAT, Skoda & VW, or even VW & Porsche with the Towrag and Cayenne. Peope will always aspire towards what they see as being the better product. That "better" may in reality just be a more prestigious badge.

As guitarists given a choice of 3 guitars a Squier, MiM and MiA most would plum for the MiA even without playing them. "It must be the best. It's obvious, its a MiA."

My experience of MiM guitars is they are pretty damn good BUT they will always have that badge stigma. Make them as expensive as MiA's and I think they will struggle.

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Post subject: Re: MiM's - Get them while they are cheap?
Posted: Fri Feb 03, 2017 8:33 am
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John Sims wrote:
My experience of MiM guitars is they are pretty damn good BUT they will always have that badge stigma. Make them as expensive as MiA's and I think they will struggle.


+1

Something else to consider......

The day may come when the Peoples' Republic Of California, given their antithetical attitudes toward for-profit businesses, actually drive Fender out altogether. Under those conditions there might not even be any MIA guitars. I'm betting that there are people in FMIC's boardroom right now who are pondering just such a scenario.

Arjay

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Post subject: Re: MiM's - Get them while they are cheap?
Posted: Fri Feb 03, 2017 8:49 am
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Retroverbial wrote:
Something else to consider......

The day may come when the Peoples' Republic Of California, given their antithetical attitudes toward for-profit businesses, actually drive Fender out altogether. Under those conditions there might not even be any MIA guitars. I'm betting that there are people in FMIC's boardroom right now who are pondering just such a scenario.

There are 49 other states, many of which have lots of guitar building expertise. Some of which even have built Fender guitars.


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Post subject: Re: MiM's - Get them while they are cheap?
Posted: Fri Feb 03, 2017 9:08 am
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Are you familiar with the axiom that holds "As California goes, so goes the rest of the nation."?

Arjay

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Post subject: Re: MiM's - Get them while they are cheap?
Posted: Fri Feb 03, 2017 9:25 am
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Retroverbial wrote:
.... there might not even be any MIA guitars. I'm betting that there are people in FMIC's boardroom right now who are pondering just such a scenario.

Arjay


That did seem the obvious conclusion to me.

The Mexican plant is evidently capable of making very good guitars. They also seem to have the flexibility to produce alternatives without a dramatic impact on price.

If there weren't MiA Strats then people would have no qualms about buying MiM's as the true evolution of the original and not a budget version of something which might otherwise be considered better just because it was made 200 miles away.

If the choice came where you could have one plant or the other, but not both, then the reasons for keeping Ensenada must be quite compelling.

I guess you could maintain Custom Shop in the US for the prestige guitars but it does otherwise seem a much cleaner differentiation of the product line.

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Post subject: Re: MiM's - Get them while they are cheap?
Posted: Fri Feb 03, 2017 10:28 am
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Retroverbial wrote:
Are you familiar with the axiom that holds "As California goes, so goes the rest of the nation."?

Arjay
I've never heard that one, Arjay; but, when I was a teenager it was said that, "As GM goes, so goes the rest of the nation." Thankfully, they're not building Fender.

As for the Mexican upheaval, there's a possibility, if there's wiggle room, that Mexico could reach out for more and not less American jobs including Fender. Maybe, they'll incorporate Chinese parts. Maybe they'll . . . whatever. While I don't think it will be happen . . . I wouldn't rule it out. That MIM axe may continue in a different form as others have mentioned. I also wouldn't rule out higher quality Mexican goods (such as guitars) that can compete at a price point. It's a Pandora's box for sure.

FSB
"Build it and they will come"
Misquote adapted from film version in Field Of Dreams 1989

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Post subject: Re: MiM's - Get them while they are cheap?
Posted: Fri Feb 03, 2017 10:43 am
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Fender Strat Brat wrote:
It's a Pandora's box for sure.


Indeed.

It's a manifestation of the "New World Order" we were warned about.

Arjay

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Post subject: Re: MiM's - Get them while they are cheap?
Posted: Sat Feb 04, 2017 12:58 am
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New world dis-order would be a more appropriate term. Unfortunately, people are gullible enough to believe that these globalist ideas are good for the world. :lol: Globalism is about the rich serving themselves, and it is actually pure evil.

Screw the globalist elites, I agree that we should "Make America Great Again". :D

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