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Post subject: Re: MiM's - Get them while they are cheap?
Posted: Tue Jan 31, 2017 6:57 pm
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arth1 wrote:
Fender Strat Brat wrote:
Electric guitars are much better and less demanding on the power grid in the long run. IMHO

If your amp isn't on, playing an electric guitar generates electricity.
Now if the amp or pedal could store that energy... :wink:
There ya go! Another worthy mod to do for the ultimate axe. :mrgreen:
FSB

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Post subject: Re: MiM's - Get them while they are cheap?
Posted: Tue Jan 31, 2017 7:44 pm
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Fender Strat Brat wrote:
arth1 wrote:
Fender Strat Brat wrote:
Electric guitars are much better and less demanding on the power grid in the long run. IMHO

If your amp isn't on, playing an electric guitar generates electricity.
Now if the amp or pedal could store that energy... :wink:
There ya go! Another worthy mod to do for the ultimate axe. :mrgreen:
FSB


How many watts of electricity does an air guitar generate?

:P

Arjay

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Post subject: Re: MiM's - Get them while they are cheap?
Posted: Tue Jan 31, 2017 8:11 pm
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Retroverbial wrote:
Fender Strat Brat wrote:
arth1 wrote:
Fender Strat Brat wrote:
Electric guitars are much better and less demanding on the power grid in the long run. IMHO

If your amp isn't on, playing an electric guitar generates electricity.
Now if the amp or pedal could store that energy... :wink:
There ya go! Another worthy mod to do for the ultimate axe. :mrgreen:
FSB


How many watts of electricity does an air guitar generate?

:P

Arjay
I don't know, Arjay. But, I bet these guys do:



FSB

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Post subject: Re: MiM's - Get them while they are cheap?
Posted: Wed Feb 01, 2017 11:02 am
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arth1 wrote:
Fender Strat Brat wrote:
Electric guitars are much better and less demanding on the power grid in the long run. IMHO

If your amp isn't on, playing an electric guitar generates electricity.
Now if the amp or pedal could store that energy... :wink:


Correct, it does produce Alternating Current, and yes if only it could be stored in a pedal
mud


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Post subject: Re: MiM's - Get them while they are cheap?
Posted: Wed Feb 01, 2017 2:02 pm
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Fender Strat Brat wrote:
Retroverbial wrote:
Fender Strat Brat wrote:
arth1 wrote:
Fender Strat Brat wrote:
Electric guitars are much better and less demanding on the power grid in the long run. IMHO

If your amp isn't on, playing an electric guitar generates electricity.
Now if the amp or pedal could store that energy... :wink:
There ya go! Another worthy mod to do for the ultimate axe. :mrgreen:
FSB


How many watts of electricity does an air guitar generate?

:P

Arjay
I don't know, Arjay. But, I bet these guys do:



FSB


Three to four hours to "air it up" so you can drive 125 miles?

Mercí, but I'll stick to my fossil-fuel Toyota, Nissan, and Honda just the same.

:lol:

Arjay

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Post subject: Re: MiM's - Get them while they are cheap?
Posted: Wed Feb 01, 2017 5:50 pm
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Quote:
Three to four hours to "air it up" so you can drive 125 miles?
Depends on if you have to babysit while airing it up. Could be no different than charging a cell phone or iPad...plug it in when you go to bed, and it's charged for the day. Obviously, it's not for someone that thinks they gotta be driving everywhere, all day, every day---it would be good for a regular working guy that lives less than 125 miles round trip to/from work.


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Post subject: Re: MiM's - Get them while they are cheap?
Posted: Thu Feb 02, 2017 12:45 am
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Retroverbial wrote:
Three to four hours to "air it up" so you can drive 125 miles?

Mercí, but I'll stick to my fossil-fuel Toyota, Nissan, and Honda just the same.

:lol:

Arjay
If you are into fossil fuel (as I am for the moment basically because of long distance, terrain, and weather issues, all of which I'm sure will be addressed if they haven't been yet), a hybrid air vehicle is reported to be able to go from LA to New York on one fill up and less money. Pretty slick I would say. Oh, yeah, and Honda is onboard as are many race car drivers and countries. I think politics and corporate greed are the biggest hurdle, and why energy companies are pushing half truths. Fake news. :lol: Everyone knows air guitar runs better than a fossil fuel guitar. :wink:
FSB
I had the 17th Honda ever brought to Canada with visits from Japan to see how it made out for our usage. I had the first series North American Nissan Pathfinder, and a Toyota. I've owned Muscle cars, luxury cars, and Classics, driven a '57 Rolls Silvercloud, and rode a turbine car. Having said that, I have a fondness for all types of cars. But, although I may or may not live to see it, driverless or semi-driverless cars are just around the corner, and we've all seen gas stations close down before, and over time gasoline may be rare or limited. Meanwhile, if cars become driverless the propulsion preference will be less of a consideration.IMHO Pollution control over promoted or not appears here to stay, however. We live in interesting times. Dang it! I never got my flying car :cry:

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Post subject: Re: MiM's - Get them while they are cheap?
Posted: Thu Feb 02, 2017 1:02 am
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Yada yada yada.

At my age I've heard all of the pie-in-the-sky promises before......

Transistors are more efficient than tubes

IC chips are more efficient than transistors

Micro-circuits are more efficient than IC's

Ethanol is a more efficient fuel than gasoline

LPG is a more efficient fuel than ethanol

Electricity is a more efficient fuel than LPG

Compressed air is a more efficient fuel than electricity

Guess what?

Vacuum tubes still play a significant role in the audio-reproduction arena.

And gasoline remains the most convenient transportation fuel.

Others can concern themselves with the future. Me......I'm perfectly at ease with the present.

Arjay

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Post subject: Re: MiM's - Get them while they are cheap?
Posted: Thu Feb 02, 2017 2:41 am
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Retroverbial wrote:
Yada yada yada....

And gasoline remains the most convenient transportation fuel...

Arjay


And electricity, compressed air etc. are generally created by burning fossil fuels, just at a different location. And modern batteries are starting to cause real problems being made of all sorts of unpleasantness which is difficult to dispose of when they come to the end of their life. This also ignoring the vast distances the materials/components are transported in fabrication.

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Post subject: Re: MiM's - Get them while they are cheap?
Posted: Thu Feb 02, 2017 2:51 am
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John Sims wrote:
Retroverbial wrote:
Yada yada yada....

And gasoline remains the most convenient transportation fuel...

Arjay


And electricity, compressed air etc. are generally created by burning fossil fuels, just at a different location. And modern batteries are starting to cause real problems being made of all sorts of unpleasantness which is difficult to dispose of when they come to the end of their life. This also ignoring the vast distances the materials/components are transported in fabrication.


+1

Once "Mr. Fusion" transgenerators become prolific and affordable, all of that will be rendered academic.

But until that day......

Arjay

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Post subject: Re: MiM's - Get them while they are cheap?
Posted: Thu Feb 02, 2017 3:07 am
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Heya. Arjay. I agree with much of what you are saying. In fact air cars were started in the 1800s. But, along with the fact that technology has progressed in leaps and bounds with computer advancement, etc. I'm simply saying that control is usually in the hands of the mighty, and it's usually politicians and lobbyists that direct the trend.

Here in Canada the government is politically and financially supporting electric vehicles big time with the major auto makers (including Honda) and others like Tesla. They are not only promoting it, they are to some extent forcing it. It is tied to the strong electrical (mostly goverment run) industry here in Canada. I suspect these crown energy corporations are not far from being sold off to private enterprise like many other crown corporations have done after the taxpayer footed the bill.

Elsewhere in the world pollution plagues India, China, Japan, and other countries world wide, and electricity production varies in its supply. Their billions of potential customers will have a huge influence on change for the millions on this side of the pond. Especially with our companies jumping into the fray.

As in the past, supply and demand will take over. This time the public will eventually determine the market on a global scale, politically or financially, and likely independent manufacturers will play a part. It's a similar renaissance like when the other horse power was replaced by the new kid on the block.

Am I saying that one is better than the other. Not entirely. But, I just left a city with the most gas driven luxury vehicles n Canada that proposes to be the most environmental city in North America by 2020, and I experienced the future here and now. It will come to your neighbourhood soon.

Basing on the new car technology in a few years from today, and giving a new car a life of approximately 15 to 30 years (YMMV), it may be a rough timeline until the changeover (whatever that may be) is complete. So, I don't think it'll be a problem for gas vehicles for the present (likely, not in my lifetime). To summarize, I'm in agreement that good better, best and new versus old is not cut and dried. I also have disdain for a loss of that which I enjoy be it old or new. So I hear ya. Just let it be known that I hate non-environmental electric cars for many of the same reasons John has said (many electric car fans have not thought it out or choose to ignore these facts), and I still prefer '57 Chevies especially if they come with the rare stock record player, Arjay. :wink:
FSB
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Post subject: Re: MiM's - Get them while they are cheap?
Posted: Thu Feb 02, 2017 3:18 am
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No doubt about it that kids born today will use and enjoy many of the emerging technologies once these revolutionary developments have their VHS vs Beta battle and one of them is convincingly victorious. But the world today is firmly entrenched with petroleum-based transportation fuels and forces within that industry and the clients who rely it will continue to resist the inevitable change.

Arjay

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Post subject: Re: MiM's - Get them while they are cheap?
Posted: Thu Feb 02, 2017 3:34 am
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Retroverbial wrote:
No doubt about it that kids born today will use and enjoy many of the emerging technologies once these revolutionary developments have their VHS vs Beta battle and one of them is convincingly victorious. But the world today is firmly entrenched with petroleum-based transportation fuels and forces within that industry and the clients who rely it will continue to resist the inevitable change.

Arjay
Well said. And that's why we thankfully have Rat Rods. :D
FSB

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Post subject: Re: MiM's - Get them while they are cheap?
Posted: Thu Feb 02, 2017 3:49 am
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Retroverbial wrote:
No doubt about it that kids born today will use and enjoy many of the emerging technologies once these revolutionary developments have their VHS vs Beta battle and one of them is convincingly victorious. But the world today is firmly entrenched with petroleum-based transportation fuels and forces within that industry and the clients who rely it will continue to resist the inevitable change.

Arjay


It does not matter what the technology is, conservation of energy still applies, you can't get more energy out than was put in. If you burn coal or petro to generate electricity to run an air compressor to power a car, in the end you can't have more energy that was in the coal to start with. In fact energy is lost all along the way. With the exception of nuclear, fossil fuels are the most potent source of energy, Arjay is right; our only hope is Mr. Fusion.


8)

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Post subject: Re: MiM's - Get them while they are cheap?
Posted: Thu Feb 02, 2017 4:57 am
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omar59 wrote:
With the exception of nuclear, fossil fuels are the most potent source of energy,

Correct. People in general don't know how big the gap is between how much energy can be stored in gasoline compared to a similar mass or volume of other sources. The very best of batteries aren't even in the same ballpark.
To which some argue"future batteries will be better", which is true, but tweaking won't make them radically more efficient.

To put it in perspective:
A Tesla P100D battery pack, a new (as of late fall 2016) expensive option to the Tesla S and Tesla X cars, is the current pinnacle of battery capacity for electric cars. It sports 100 kWh capacity, which is up from the 85 kWh of the predecessor. That's like 18% up. Yay, right?
In comparison, a 10 gallon tank, which is considered small for gasoline vehicles holds 360 kWh. 3.6 times as much.

And the P100D battery weighs around 1,300 lbs. An energy equivalent amount of gasoline weighs ... oh, about 17 (!) lbs.
Tweaking batteries to become more efficient isn't going to erase that gap.

A Tesla S with a high capacity battery has a curb weight of around 2.5 tonnes.
The small petrol burning grocery getter weights half as much, and filling it up takes a couple of minutes. And it costs $20-40k instead of $140k.

Electric vehicles are here, no doubt about it. But they aren't going to magically bridge that enormous energy gap. Hybrids are going to be more practical for the foreseeable future.


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