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Post subject: Fender Lace Sensor
Posted: Mon Jul 14, 2008 5:25 pm
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What is the difference between a Fender Lace Sensor and a Lace Sensor? I think its just that one says Fender on it and is licensed with Fender. Am I correct?

I also think that Fender only licenses red, blue, and gold. Where as Lace has purple and humbucker sensors. Did I answer my own question?

Guitarcenter is currently out of Red Lace Sensors, but has Fender Red Lace sensors in stock. lol


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Posted: Mon Jul 14, 2008 7:13 pm
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Yup they're exactly the same. Same sound, same materials.


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Post subject: Re: Fender Lace Sensor
Posted: Mon Jul 14, 2008 9:20 pm
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[quote="CloseYetFar"]What is the difference between a Fender Lace Sensor and a Lace Sensor? I think its just that one says Fender on it and is licensed with Fender. Am I correct?

Correct!

The pickups are first seen on the Strat Plus's of the mid-eighties starting with 3 gold, then a blue, gold, red, and the Ultra had blue, silver, and red if my memory serves me.

The first generation Clapton had 3 gold. The present MIA Buddy Guy as well.

The Tele-Plus initially had a blue at the neck, and a red-dually at the bridge; The James Burton Tele had three golds, I believe.

20 years is a long way back to remember.

What we don't learn is the reason for the departure of the Lace Sensor from the Fender lineup. They worked very well on those guitars.

Perhaps someone out there has the 'skinny' on that.

Doc :wink:


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Post subject: Re: Fender Lace Sensor
Posted: Tue Jul 15, 2008 7:01 am
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zzdoc wrote:
The pickups are first seen on the Strat Plus's of the mid-eighties starting with 3 gold, then a blue, gold, red, and the Ultra had blue, silver, and red if my memory serves me.

The first generation Clapton had 3 gold. The present MIA Buddy Guy as well.

The Tele-Plus initially had a blue at the neck, and a red-dually at the bridge; The James Burton Tele had three golds, I believe.

20 years is a long way back to remember.

What we don't learn is the reason for the departure of the Lace Sensor from the Fender lineup. They worked very well on those guitars.

Perhaps someone out there has the 'skinny' on that.

Doc :wink:


Your memory's working just fine, Doc, as I suspect you know.

Elsewhere Mr Bill was reminding us of this amusing website:

http://soundlogic-usa.com

Now the gentleman over there has some remarks on "the power of suggestion" (under "guitar mythology").

On which: I noticed that when Fender's EC came out with Lace Sensors on it, interest in those pickups soared, and many sagacious fellows touted them as a key (even the key) to attaining Clapton's sound.

And the moment the EC Strat switched to Vintage Noiseless pickups those same learned authorities were heard to pronounce that Sensors were, after all, "too clean, too clinical: lifeless. We want our true Fender sound, hum and all". Hmmm...

All I know is that I have guitars with Sensors, SCNs, Texas Specials and certain exotic brands. And they are all useful colors in the palette. "But Ceri, if you had to choose just one type of pickup..." But I don't have to.

Saw Clapton on stage just the other day, and he played a Strat with VNs and another with Sensors. He doesn't have to choose, either.

Cheers - self-indulgent-Ceri


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Posted: Tue Jul 15, 2008 9:27 am
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Hey. thanks for all the info. I didn't think there was that much too it. At least now as a consumer I know for sure that the only difference is one says Fender on the cover and the other doesn't. Other then that Lace Sensors are awesome, well at least I think so.

I have also noticed that a lot of popular players run Lace sensors with Fenders but not so much with other guitars. I don't think I have ever seen a Les Paul with a Lace Sensor Humbucker in it. Although, I'm sure someone has done it.


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Post subject: Lace Sensors
Posted: Tue Jul 15, 2008 9:32 am
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Yeah what happened with Fender and Lace Sensors? Back in the day they were the cat's pj's! Years ago a guy at a store in KC had a sunburst MIM strat. He gutted it, slapped in american components and Blue, Gold, Red Lace sensors in a black pickguard. Number one that guitar was beautiful, number two I swear on a stack of hymnals that it smoked all the other MIA strats. This was probably the late nineties.



DANG! Now that I've taken a trip in the "way back machine", makes me want to do that myself. Give my 06 HWY1 a run for it's money.


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Posted: Tue Jul 15, 2008 9:33 am
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Yeah, there were a lot of Fender models that came with Lace Sensors, including a Strat Ultra I had for a while. Then in the blind of an eye they all switch to the Noiseless pickups.

My main guitar has two - a silver in the middle (fat strat tone) and a blue on the neck (paf tone). To me, I love them or I'd have something else in. But, they're not for everyone. You have to have a certain touch or you might not get a good tone out of them. My friend is a great player but can't get a good tone with my guitar, and he has a very light touch/attack.

With mid to high gains, I tend to get a much better tone if I have heavy attack on the strings. If I play too light on them, the pickups can sound a bit muddy and unfocused to me.


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Post subject: Re: Fender Lace Sensor
Posted: Tue Jul 15, 2008 1:16 pm
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As you know, from previous posts, I put SCN's in my Clapton-based CS strat. They had just been put on the market in the AmDeluxe and were being touted as the best thing since sliced bread, and seemingly a cut above the VN's. This guitar has a rosewood board so we have the old apples and oranges issue again but I swear my '93 Clapton with the Lace Sensors was a cut above the current model, and they tell me that the first edition in the '80's was likely raunchier.

I suspect there was some kind of falling out with Lace in possibly a royalty issue, and/or they were looking for a more retro look on the Blackie, and gave Eric something he might have asked for or preferred.

Of course, Clapton's tone has a great deal to do with his hands but I am also convinced there's a 'special sauce' in the way his sound system is set up. THAT tone can't come from the hands alone.

His amps are modded, there's a lot of stuff ooing through the board, and if you listen to the older tracks done with the old strat, it has a totally different vibe.

Doc. :wink:


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Posted: Tue Jul 15, 2008 1:20 pm
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I played a Strat equipped w/ 3 Laces (I want to say they were red?) at Daddy's Junky Music in Salem, NH; I wasn't impressed... I have a MIA w/ TX Specials and a MIM w/ EMG-SA's, which I like much better, but it all comes down to personal preference and what sound you are looking for.

\m/

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Post subject: Re: Fender Lace Sensor
Posted: Tue Jul 15, 2008 1:24 pm
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zzdoc wrote:
... see above ...

Doc. :wink:


Listen to your doctor, kids. He knows...

- C


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Post subject: Re: Fender Lace Sensor
Posted: Tue Jul 15, 2008 1:52 pm
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Ceri wrote:
zzdoc wrote:
... see above ...

Doc. :wink:


Listen to your doctor, kids. He knows...

- C

Between you two and acouple others my guitar knowledge has definitely increased!


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Post subject: Re: Fender Lace Sensor
Posted: Tue Jul 15, 2008 1:59 pm
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To take my reply one step further, if one is a careful student of Clapton's tone, its evolution is very clear. Even though he had a 'signature sound' with Cream, he was very 'Freddy King' influenced, and the sound of his guitar on his first solo CD "Eric Clapton" reflects that.

He does a "live" version of "Ramblin' On My Mind" on "EC Was Here" that has a solo which is awesome and is done with the old 'Blackie". That's an example of another phase in that evolution.

If any of you can get your ears on the Japan tour with Eric and George, he does a solo on "If I Needed Someone" that is also mindblowing, but it is this very tone which convinces me that there is a great deal of signal processing going on. The way those note sustain and flow sweetly one into the other cannot solely be the result of technique. That's played on the Lace Sensor guitar.

Theres a subtle blend of overdrive and who knows what else in play here. I also sense, in the general sound of most of his post-'57 Blackie stuff some touch of 'delay', either reverb or chorus. There has been, in print, references to the components in his signal chain, but I would suspect that the actual recipe is a closely guarded secret which will never be revealed.

Eric plays mostly above the twelfth fret and has adopted a fingering style to satisfy the narrow spacing. If you watch him closely you will see that, even lower down the neck, he often employes his index and second finger for intervals which most of us will use the index and third, and never his fourth finger.

In order to get the precise fretting of notes, his guitars would need to be setup exquisitely with respect to string height. Intonation is not a real issue here because remember that the trem is blocked. He has a unique, wide vibrato which he has mastered over these many years, and if you watch him, you will notice that he can release his thumb and the fretting finger will move that string up and down rapidly AND THE NECK WILL NOT MOVE! He may also have a way of gently stabilizing the guitar body so all the force is delivered to the string without any wasted movement.

I have seen Eric quoted in print that his string height is a constant 1/8th of an inch from the nut to the bridge. Pnder that for awhile. If so, the nut and the bridge need to be custom cut and set and and are hardly stock from the factory.

I have written often about the search for tone. You want take a look a the current issue of Guitar World and the in depth review of the creation of Jimi's 'Electric Ladyland.' Get into that and tell me you can re-create that in your bedroom with stuff you bought at GC.

We actually know much more about the details of SRV's equipment, as well as Jimi's than we do about Eric's, but SRV's hands are something unto themselves and there I could argue that the playing style is uniquely
integrated into the whole. To play distinct single notes integrated into a steady comping without breaking stride has never ceased to amaze me. That had to take years of finessing, and his brother is a witness to how that kid practiced. We have those memories in print from JV.

Take pleasure in the creative gifts which were capitalized on by Hendrix, and EVH, and SRV, and Eric, which motivated you to reach further in your pursuit of your music.

The old masters like John Lee Hooker, and Bo Diddley would say to you, 'I don't sound like anyone else. I sound like ME. Don't be wastin' your time tryin' to sound like me. Spend it tryin' to sound like YOU!'

Gotta go operate.

Later!

Doc :wink:


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Post subject:
Posted: Tue Jul 15, 2008 2:26 pm
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Now I want to set a little fantasy before everyone here. Imagine you had some terrible injury or illness or whatever, and needed surgery. And then you found that our ZZDoc was to be your surgeon. So, with perhaps just a little of the right kind of encouragement, instead of talking about your treatment that gentleman might start speaking to you about the most interesting aspects of guitar playing of all, as we have just witnessed. Before and after your surgery – hell, if it was brain surgery you could carry on that conversation during the procedure.

Let’s stop that thought right here. We don’t all want to be heading over to Long Island with the intention of deliberately having a car crash, just to try to live out that fantasy.

Or to put it more concisely: he’s an asset, our Doc, ain’t he?

G’night, all - C


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Posted: Tue Jul 15, 2008 5:02 pm
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I've wondered for years why Fender replaced the Lace pickups. I wondered if it wasn't a royalty problem, too.

Also, I thought I read somewhere years ago that Clapton had a disagreement with Fender because he was being pushed into using the VN p'u's. He couldn't have disliked the Laces that much. In the Cream concert at RAH he pulls out the old original Lace-equipped Clapton Strat for a song or two. There is so much misinformation out there that it's difficult to determine what's true.


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Posted: Tue Jul 15, 2008 5:23 pm
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Here's another observation, likely many of you have made, but superficially.
I didn't come to appreciated Chopin until I saw a cast of his hands. Then, all of those notes on the staff, stacked one on top of the other like grapes, began to make sense, as did the difficulty of playing his compostions. He composed for his hands, not mine.

I didn't begin to appreciate Chuck Berry until it dawned on me how large his hands were, and how effortless a stretch it was for him to play what is now the seminal back beat to rock music which he evolved from R&B. He wrote for his hands, not mine.

The same for Eric, whose finger lengths make it possible for him to reach the notes he does, in the way he does. He plays with his hands, not mine.

All our guitar heroes possess a singular gift which we may or may not all possess, and without that physical blessing, we strive, but we may never succeed.

If you can be satisfied with those limitations, you will be at peace with your music.

Doc


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