It is currently Mon Mar 16, 2020 5:10 pm

All times are UTC - 7 hours



Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 33 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3  Next
Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3  Next
Author Message
Post subject: Re: Mexican Stratocaster Questions!!!
Posted: Sat Dec 24, 2016 11:58 am
Offline
Aspiring Musician
Aspiring Musician
User avatar

Joined: Tue Oct 08, 2013 2:11 pm
Posts: 820
Location: Iowa, USA
Retroverbial wrote:
Here you go......

Image

The bridge anomaly, while present, is slight and of little consequence.

I've seen much worse hanging in the showroom of a GC.

Arjay
Saddles are slid north! See the bend in the strings, and the absence of full string-through holes from overhead view?


Top
Profile
Fender Play Winter Sale 2020
Post subject: Re: Mexican Stratocaster Questions!!!
Posted: Sat Jan 14, 2017 8:26 am
Offline
Hobbyist
Hobbyist

Joined: Sun Dec 18, 2016 8:49 pm
Posts: 10
White Dog wrote:
Retroverbial wrote:
Here you go......

Image

The bridge anomaly, while present, is slight and of little consequence.

I've seen much worse hanging in the showroom of a GC.

Arjay
Saddles are slid north! See the bend in the strings, and the absence of full string-through holes from overhead view?


So what should I do about the saddles, slide them back a little? I took some bow out of the neck and reduced some fret buzz. I also polished the frets and I'm not getting the same notes when I play two different frets anymore.


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: Mexican Stratocaster Questions!!!
Posted: Sat Jan 14, 2017 8:51 am
Offline
Rock Star
Rock Star

Joined: Tue Jul 17, 2007 1:53 am
Posts: 4241
If there's no trouble in how the guitar plays and sounds, you don't have to do anything.

The 'northboundiness' White Dog pointed out may be a sign of the neck misalignment mentioned on page one - that can be corrected by loosening strings, then "loosen the four neck bolts and pull the neck in the needed direction, then tighten the four neck bolts" (quoting shimmilou, page1).

All in all, it seems the guitar has gotten better.
But based on what you ask, I still wonder if it is at its best - like, if you 'took some bow out of the neck'; what was the relief before that and what is is now. Not trying to question you or your skills, but sometimes using a tech is the best way to go. Maintaining a good setup is a lot easier than creating one.


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: Mexican Stratocaster Questions!!!
Posted: Sun Jan 15, 2017 1:49 pm
Offline
Hobbyist
Hobbyist

Joined: Sun Dec 18, 2016 8:49 pm
Posts: 10
It had quite a bit of relief. My rationale of taking some relief out was to reduce fret buzz, cause that was one thing I could pull off myself while removing buzz without touching the frets. I would love to take it to a luthier but I don't trust the people at the local music store.


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: Mexican Stratocaster Questions!!!
Posted: Sun Jan 15, 2017 4:40 pm
Offline
Rock Icon
Rock Icon
User avatar

Joined: Wed Mar 31, 2010 12:48 am
Posts: 26417
Location: Tombstone Territory
Greenredbull wrote:
I would love to take it to a luthier but I don't trust the people at the local music store.


Talk with local musicians whom you trust -- ask them where they're having their work done.

Arjay

_________________
"Here's why reliability is job one: A great sounding amp that breaks down goes from being a favorite piece of gear to a useless piece of crap in less time than it takes to read this sentence." -- BRUCE ZINKY


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: Mexican Stratocaster Questions!!!
Posted: Wed Feb 08, 2017 3:14 pm
Offline
Hobbyist
Hobbyist

Joined: Sun Dec 18, 2016 8:49 pm
Posts: 10
I've been screwing with the strat. I had string buzz betound the 12 fret and fret out two in some frets above the 12th fret. Anyway I reduced it some my taking relief out of the neck. My strings were pretty low at the time. Recently I read and watched videos that stated strats really benefit from higher string height because of the steeper break angle; I raised them the buzz and fret outs are gone and the sound of the strat sounds way rounder even when its not plugged in. My question is should I shim the neck? I checked the relief with a feeler gauge and its pretty much perfect, but I want the strings closer to the fretboard without dropping them at the bridge.


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: Mexican Stratocaster Questions!!!
Posted: Wed Feb 08, 2017 5:26 pm
Offline
Professional Musician
Professional Musician
User avatar

Joined: Fri Jan 02, 2015 6:57 am
Posts: 2238
Location: UK
So you have got rid of the fret buzz and the clearance, string height relative to the neck, is all as per Fender specifications?

What do you think shimming the neck will achieve? Draw it out on a piece of paper. The strings run in a straight line between the nut and the saddles. The nut height is fixed (unless you cut or change it) so shimming, or tilting, the neck will have exactly the same effect as raising or dropping the saddles. So why would you unless you have run out of adjustment on the saddles?

I appreciate I may be missing something here as, while I have adjusted saddles, I have never needed to shim a neck on a finished guitar. How do people manage with set necks otherwise?

_________________
John

After all this time I should be better.


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: Mexican Stratocaster Questions!!!
Posted: Wed Feb 08, 2017 6:41 pm
Offline
Hobbyist
Hobbyist

Joined: Sun Dec 18, 2016 8:49 pm
Posts: 10
I have more room to raise the saddles. I checked the frets to see if I had a high fret beyond the 12 fret and I didnt. What would be causing my fret outs and buzz besides too low of a string height. I was thinking that leaving the saddles at their height now (no buzzing) that with a shimmed neck I could bring the neck to th string rather than bring the strings to the neck. Get me? Also I don't have the tool to measure string height


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: Mexican Stratocaster Questions!!!
Posted: Wed Feb 08, 2017 7:06 pm
Offline
Rock Icon
Rock Icon
User avatar

Joined: Wed Mar 31, 2010 12:48 am
Posts: 26417
Location: Tombstone Territory
John Sims wrote:
I appreciate I may be missing something here as, while I have adjusted saddles, I have never needed to shim a neck on a finished guitar. How do people manage with set necks otherwise?


+1!

Of my eleven Strats (one MIA, two MIJ, eight custom builds using a variety of MIA and MIJ Fender parts) not one of them has a neck shim.

(perhaps my previous advice should've been heeded)

Arjay

_________________
"Here's why reliability is job one: A great sounding amp that breaks down goes from being a favorite piece of gear to a useless piece of crap in less time than it takes to read this sentence." -- BRUCE ZINKY


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: Mexican Stratocaster Questions!!!
Posted: Wed Feb 08, 2017 8:20 pm
Offline
Rock Star
Rock Star
User avatar

Joined: Sun Sep 08, 2013 8:50 pm
Posts: 4602
Location: ˚ɷ˚
John Sims wrote:
I appreciate I may be missing something here as, while I have adjusted saddles, I have never needed to shim a neck on a finished guitar. How do people manage with set necks otherwise?

The bridges on set-necks can often be adjusted far more in height. Look at a tune-o-matic bridge, for example. It adjusts at least four times as much as a typical Fender bridge.
And some, like Firebirds, are neck-through-body which helps prevent tilting where the neck is set, and laminated to keep it forever straight.


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: Mexican Stratocaster Questions!!!
Posted: Thu Feb 09, 2017 12:48 am
Offline
Professional Musician
Professional Musician
User avatar

Joined: Fri Jan 02, 2015 6:57 am
Posts: 2238
Location: UK
arth1 wrote:
John Sims wrote:
I appreciate I may be missing something here as, while I have adjusted saddles, I have never needed to shim a neck on a finished guitar. How do people manage with set necks otherwise?

The bridges on set-necks can often be adjusted far more in height. Look at a tune-o-matic bridge, for example. It adjusts at least four times as much as a typical Fender bridge.
And some, like Firebirds, are neck-through-body which helps prevent tilting where the neck is set, and laminated to keep it forever straight.


Yes I appreciate that. My question was a little retorical in countering the desire to shim the neck. As, if the neck is set, then you have to employ the adjustments as you describe above.

_________________
John

After all this time I should be better.


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: Mexican Stratocaster Questions!!!
Posted: Thu Feb 09, 2017 1:00 am
Offline
Rock Star
Rock Star

Joined: Tue Jul 17, 2007 1:53 am
Posts: 4241
Greenredbull wrote:
Also I don't have the tool to measure string height

I think this tells where the basic problem is.

Setting up a guitar without measuring is something that a very experienced person might do - but even the most experienced guitar techs / luthiers measure.
From this topic I've understood you don't have very much experience. In such case, it's absolutely crucial that you know what are the critical measures on your guitar, and how they compare to "usual" measures (that can be read as "factory defaults").

So, again: take the guitar to a good pro for a setup. It'll cost you something under 100$£€, and in just a couple of days you get an instrument that will play well.

Or keep taking the long way: learn to set it up yourself, get a proper set of tools, start from scratch, use the Strat setup guide and adjust everything to factory specs. If the guitar doesn't have some essential defects, it plays fine, and you can do the possibly needed adjustments to alter the defaults to your playing style. This approach may take you quite some time (already been two months...). (Some problems are, how to choose the right advice, and how to know if the guitar has the forementioned 'essential defects'...)

Which brings me to the shimming issue. Some players believe that high saddles/steep string angle give better sound. Some guitars need bigger 'downforce' on strings over the saddles to be playable at their best (typically Jaguars, Jazzmasters etc.). Or there may just not be adjustment space on the saddles (very rare). All these may result in the need to shim. (Plus, I've known a guy who shimmed a neck rather than shorten the saddle screws, but let's not go there.)
Anyways, at this point I'm not convinced your guitar is in need of a shim - there are other things that just don't sound right.


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: Mexican Stratocaster Questions!!!
Posted: Thu Feb 09, 2017 6:50 am
Offline
Professional Musician
Professional Musician
User avatar

Joined: Fri Jan 02, 2015 6:57 am
Posts: 2238
Location: UK
Greenredbull wrote:
... I was thinking that leaving the saddles at their height now (no buzzing) that with a shimmed neck I could bring the neck to th string rather than bring the strings to the neck...


Seriously!?! Perhaps you might wish to review the logic in that?

In shimming the neck you adjust the angle of the neck relative to the body (think of the micro tilt on some MiAs) It isn't adjusting the height of the neck as, after 50+ years manufacture you can pretty much assume Fender have that bit sorted.

So, going back to my original point, if you imagine the nut is a fixed point then the saddle is at a point on an arc described from the nut. The neck is actually in a plane below that of the perpendicular line of this described arc (but not necessarily parallel to it.)

It is perhaps easier to visualise if you imagine the guitar is resting face down on a work top with only the nut and saddle touching. You will then adjust how parallel the fret board is to the work top by lifting or dropping the saddles.

So, in summary, you should only need to shim the neck if you run out of adjustment on the saddles.

There are other subtleties involved such as the geometry imposed by the trem but if we delve too deeply into that I fear our heads may explode before we come to a conclusion. However, it does pose another issue:-

If you haven't set up your trem properly this will create a dynamic relationship as to the effective height of your saddles. They all work together in a system of forces.

_________________
John

After all this time I should be better.


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: Mexican Stratocaster Questions!!!
Posted: Thu Feb 09, 2017 7:12 am
Offline
Rock Star
Rock Star
User avatar

Joined: Sun Sep 08, 2013 8:50 pm
Posts: 4602
Location: ˚ɷ˚
jmattis wrote:
Setting up a guitar without measuring is something that a very experienced person might do - but even the most experienced guitar techs / luthiers measure.

In my personal view, a key difference between techs and luthiers is the same as between machine woodworkers and hand tool woodworkers:
The former read measurements, and the latter transfer and create jigs; not just because it saves time in the long run, but because it's more accurate.

I made a small wooden bridge jig that goes on the 21st fret, and if the strings all touch the top, action is fine. It's useful not only to keep my similar guitars the same, but also to fix things after getting them back from techs. (If whittling skills aren't your forte, a piece of hardening putty will do the job.)

For relief, I made a neck length beech wood straightedge, and placing one end against the nut and resting it on the frets, I drove a flat head screw into it over the 7th fret. I then flipped it over and unscrewed the screw a bit at a time, repeating until it just touched the 7th fret. Now I can just lay it on top of the fretboard and easily adjust the truss rod to get the same relief. No need to read any measurements. And if my preference changes, it's easy to adjust. It took me less time to make than adjusting the truss rod even once, and it's a big time saver.

tl;dr: transfers > numbers


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: Mexican Stratocaster Questions!!!
Posted: Thu Feb 09, 2017 11:49 am
Offline
Rock Star
Rock Star

Joined: Tue Jul 17, 2007 1:53 am
Posts: 4241
Measuring isn't always about reading inches and millimeters from a ruler - like, the straigtedge with a couple of feeler gauges (bough or created *grin*) will work for any relief, not just the one constant preference. A pro tech/luthier often has no luxury of 'the one and only right' setup. But you're correct that they often have some nice DIY tools, from clamps to sanders to awls. I steal ideas every chance i get - sometimes using ten times the time to make a tool, compared to just doing the original job...


Anyways, it's clear that you and me both feel we belong to the 'hand tool woodworker' category. :lol: :lol: :lol:


Top
Profile
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 33 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3  Next
Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3  Next

All times are UTC - 7 hours

Fender Play Winter Sale 2020

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Google [Bot] and 2 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to: