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Posted: Thu Jul 10, 2008 7:06 am
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Ceri wrote:
Truth is, there is no intrinsic reason why product at any price level has to come from a factory in America, Mexico, Japan, China or Korea (am I missing any?)


India. Indonesia.

But the truth of the matter is that they are factory workers, not luthiers, standing around all day buffing or loading wood into CNC machines to the tune of 500 guitars a day.

Except for the master builders in the Custom Shops, there's little of the attention to a guitar that we dream about. And the machines are available to any manufacturer anywhere.

So it's no wonder the quality of the far eastern guitars has increased so much over the last decade. If they weren't making them out of plywood and cheaper hardware to keep the prices down, we'd all be agog over them.

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Last edited by orvilleowner on Thu Jul 10, 2008 8:20 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Fender Play Winter Sale 2020
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Posted: Thu Jul 10, 2008 7:17 am
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orvilleowner wrote:
Ceri wrote:
Truth is, there is no intrinsic reason why product at any price level has to come from a factory in America, Mexico, Japan, China or Korea (am I missing any?)


India. Indonesia.



Ah, yes, Indonesia, of course. But I didn't know about India. Interesting. Marshall were making some of their cheapy MG amps there, but I have a notion they pulled out because of quality control issues - don't know if that's right.

Quite true, to the rest of what you say. It's a factory process, hence the price. All those kids asking on this Forum if they can build their own Strat? Of course they can: try it, add up the cost of hardware plus hours of labor expended, and discover what incredible, amazing value a Fender (or Gibson or what you will) guitar actually is.

Or go to a luthier for a true, jaw-droppingly beautiful luthier product. Often, not as expensive as you might think - but a whole lot more costly than an off-the-shelf guitar.

Cheers - C


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Posted: Thu Jul 10, 2008 8:01 am
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IT IS AS SIMPLE AS THIS; MIM WILL NEVER BE WORTH ANYTHING!! MIA STRATS WILL ONLY GO UP IN VALUE !!!!


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Posted: Thu Jul 10, 2008 8:22 am
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Mike DeTemple makes custom Strat and Tele types to your specification.

http://www.detempleguitars.com

Min. price for a Strat-style is about $6200.

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Posted: Thu Jul 10, 2008 8:42 am
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MikeT239 wrote:
Mike DeTemple makes custom Strat and Tele types to your specification.

http://www.detempleguitars.com

Min. price for a Strat-style is about $6200.


Hey, some more excellent photos, on the "How I build 'em" page - thanks for that, Mike!

Interesting trussrod. Liked the pic of the bone nut - and the bone it came from: man, that's a job that smells bad! Couldn't quite see how his brand name works on the headstock; is that just a waterslide or is something else going on in that picture? Looking at the rest of his technique, maybe he's painting it on with a watercolor brush?!!

Anyway, no CNC machines there! Hence the price...

Cheers - C


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Posted: Thu Jul 10, 2008 9:00 am
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No problemo =]

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'70 - '72 SG
'95 - '96 MIA Std Strat TBX & TX Specs
'07 MIM CP '50s w/ EMG-SA's, EXG & SPC
'59 Bassman Ltd


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Posted: Thu Jul 10, 2008 11:14 am
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The MIM Strats has good quality.

I play a MIM Classic Player 60 with 69 pu's on it.
Feels good, sounds good and good price.

Cheers :D


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Posted: Thu Jul 10, 2008 1:20 pm
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jimvond wrote:
MIM WILL NEVER BE WORTH ANYTHING!! MIA STRATS WILL ONLY GO UP IN VALUE !!!!

I will agree that the MIAs will likely see greater appreciation (or less depreciation, depending). But then, the resale value is the last thing on my mind when getting a guitar. Your statement infers that maybe it shouldn't be. Hmmm ... food for thought.


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Posted: Fri Jul 11, 2008 8:48 am
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01GT eibach wrote:
jimvond wrote:
MIM WILL NEVER BE WORTH ANYTHING!! MIA STRATS WILL ONLY GO UP IN VALUE !!!!

I will agree that the MIAs will likely see greater appreciation (or less depreciation, depending). But then, the resale value is the last thing on my mind when getting a guitar. Your statement infers that maybe it shouldn't be. Hmmm ... food for thought.


Absolutely. Buy it to play it, not to sell it in 40 years time. And once it's yours, do anything you need to so's to make it play better.

Mind you, I did read that Chuck Berry's pension plan involved buying one Cadillac and one Gibson ES335 every year and hoarding them away. I wonder how much he's selling those for, now? (Sound of lips being licked...)

Cheers - C


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Posted: Fri Jul 11, 2008 9:23 am
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Ceri wrote:
Absolutely. Buy it to play it, not to sell it in 40 years time. And once it's yours, do anything you need to so as to make it play better...

Agreed. But keep all those original parts!!!


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Posted: Fri Jul 11, 2008 9:36 am
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Ceri wrote:
01GT eibach wrote:
jimvond wrote:
MIM WILL NEVER BE WORTH ANYTHING!! MIA STRATS WILL ONLY GO UP IN VALUE !!!!

I will agree that the MIAs will likely see greater appreciation (or less depreciation, depending). But then, the resale value is the last thing on my mind when getting a guitar. Your statement infers that maybe it shouldn't be. Hmmm ... food for thought.


Absolutely. Buy it to play it, not to sell it in 40 years time. And once it's yours, do anything you need to so's to make it play better.

Mind you, I did read that Chuck Berry's pension plan involved buying one Cadillac and one Gibson ES335 every year and hoarding them away. I wonder how much he's selling those for, now? (Sound of lips being licked...)

Cheers - C
Nice pension plan I just bought my son a Gibby335 needless to say my wallet is lighter now. Also tried to get the guy to sell me a Tokia Springy Sound but would not budge on price. People probaly
thought they would not be worth money 25 years ago, now look.

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Posted: Fri Jul 11, 2008 9:41 am
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We all know that the MIM guitars lack some features of their MIA counterparts. And the MIAs will definitely hold their value better over the MIMs. The big "however" in all of this is that the MIM guitars have verrry nice quality materials and construction. Period. That combined with the fact that "each guitar has an individual sound and feel", many of the MIM owners have found their MIMs to exceed many other worthy instruments, including some of the MIAs.

In summary ... One must credit Fender with providing the MIM guitars at a low price point that are every bit as worthy to wear the "Fender Stratocaster" name as their MIA cousins.


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Posted: Mon Jul 14, 2008 11:08 am
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It really takes a lack of maturity to make a statement about Mexicans and Americans like that. I have personnaly toured the California plant and saw no laziness at all, in fact I saw a lot of people that were really taking pride in putting together what many of us believe is the finest instrument in the world. As in all things you'll get what you pay for. Americans Stratocasters are a better quality, better sounding instrument than it's less expensive counterpart the Mexican Strat. They will also hold a better resale value as well as being a more proffesional sounding instrument. I'm not insulting the MIM crowd but having played these guitars for 40 years I know of no proffesional that would buy a Mexican over an American. Some don't like the 08's and prefer the 90's strats which I personally dislike. The 90's strat from my experience with them is that the quality control on the 08's is leaps and bounds above what was put out in the 90's. I personally have an '08 American deluxe Ash Strat that I absolutely love. It is one of the finest sounding instruments I've ever played with a sensational feel and fantastic neck. You couldn't give me a 70's 80's or 90's strat although things did start to improve for the strat in the 90's, todays Strat (IMO) is the finest ever made. The case itself is leaps and bounds above the old cheapie shaped cases and (I feel) the workmanship is fantastic. I did take my time when purchasing it and played at least 12 different American strats before settling on the one I bought. But when you find the one...you KNOW it...something special happens, it's like an epiphany, or a moment of claruty, but something just cliks and you KNOW that guitar was made for you. Mexican strats are nice guitars but you really can't compare them to Americans...it's like comparing apples to oranges..no matter how much you upgrade the hardware, tuners, pickups at the end of the day it's still a mexican strat. All in all...you'll get what you pay for and the bigest and most important part of the guitar (IMO) the neck on an American feels nothing like the neck on a Mexican...whatever you chose, whatever you can afford enjoy and keep on playing..That's why we buy them to play and no other guitar in the world feels like or sounds like a real strat. Many companies have tried and all have failed to capture the sound and feel of our beloved guitars.to me at least, there is only one original electric and that's a strat. Good luck and keep on rockin!!!


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Post subject: MIA?MIM?ISITAGOODGUITARRANT!
Posted: Mon Jul 14, 2008 2:45 pm
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I love my MIA and my MIM, but I might like my MIM better. The Classic Player Series guitars (50s and 60s) are destined to be actual 'Classics', not unlike the Fullerton re-issues of the early-80s. They are, yet another interesting point in Fender history. Maybe they won't appreciate in value that way, but they'll always be a good damn guitar and that's what it's all about. Plus, at this price, you can tear them down, build them up, tweak, relic, or do whatever without fear. You won't do that with your Custom Shop '56, that's for sure.

The stupid/lazy comments etc are just plain B.S. Save that sh#t for the cellblock. If you've got 40-80 thousand dollars to buy an actual 50s or early 60s vintage Strat, when you pop off the neck, chances are the initials will be that of a Latino craftsman or craftswoman. Leo hired the best craftspeople he could find, and many were (are) Latino. Simple as that.

All of the finest homes in SoCal were built during the twenties and thirties by folks from other countries who couldn't speak English. They might have even been considered lazy or stupid by the ignorant, but their workmanship still stands the test of time. With all of our over-educated CAD designers, architects, laser-level wielding contractors, fancy power-tools, etc. no one is building houses with that kind of quality anymore. SoCal has always been a great cultural melting pot for talented craftspeople and the diversity of the employees at Fender reflects that fact.

Yes, you don't have to be luthier to buff bodies all day, but what do we know about these people, anyway? John Page's first gig at Fender...BUFFING NECKS! Maybe that person buffing those bodies in Ensenada is the most ripping guitar player you've never heard of and happens to be STOKED to work at Fender. Maybe he (or she) can put an entire guitar together blindfolded. Wind their own pickups. Pick out any tune by ear. Maybe their heroes are the same as yours.

Look at Abby Ybarra. She's been making pickups for Fender since '58. I don't know any stupid/lazy people who hold a job for FIFTY FU*KING YEARS! That's pride in yourself, and your work. I bet that there are folks at the Ensenada Fender plant look to people like Abigail and want to be like them. To aspire to the greats that their company has produced. Over the years Fender has had thousands of employees. They even have their own Hall of Fame. You can bet many of those names end in a vowel.

Honestly, I don't think Leo Fender thought that the only people working on these guitars should be luthiers. That's why he designed these things the way he did. Fender guitars are an off-shoot of the hot-rod car culture of SoCal. Tear 'em down and rebuild 'em. Make them your own. Hell, Leo didn't even play guitar, but he listened! He made these instruments for 'working' musicians, most of whom couldn't afford to have them set up by said luthier anyway. THAT'S WHY HE INCLUDES INSTRUCTIONS AND WRENCHES!

Ensenada is only 2.5 hours from Corona and a little less from Fullerton. It's practically in Southern California. Getting materials back and forth is a snap. Getting information back and forth is a snap. I'm happy that one of my guitars is from down there and not some Basswood bodied Strat from Japan. This is SoCal and it's diversity that makes this place, and companies found here, like Fender, great! FENDER 4 LIFE! endofrant :oops:


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Post subject:
Posted: Mon Jul 14, 2008 4:20 pm
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I own both a MIA and a MIM Stratocaster. I love both. I will say that the MIA has more features. It has a nicer neck and fingerboard. My only complaint about the MIM Strat was that the pickups were a little thin... I replaced the neck pickup with a Texas special.


All in all I play my MIM as much as I play my MIA. My MIM is tuned down a half step and my MIA is in standard tuning. Both guitars do their job very well.

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